"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:09 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote:


"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:1%Cjf.182723$Io.55440@clgrps13...
Heh..... here is the sailcalc comparison between a Sea Sprite 34 & the
Nordica 30. I believe the Nordica 30 has a 180 PHRF. I think the telling
factor lies in the displacement to LWL which places the Sea Sprite in
the
very heavy cruiser class at over 400.

All true, but don't forget who designed the SS34: Bill Luders. I don't
expect you to know much about him, but he was known as the quintessential
rule-beater during his naval architecture days. He designed Americas Cup
boats as well as racers of virtually every length and application. And
his
boats won easily over boats that were purportedly "much faster yachts."
He
often talked to the rating rule powers-that-be, informing them of
loopholes
in their rules. They would say, "Go away, Bill--we like the rule as it
is."
So he'd design a boat to exploit that loophole and beat all their
cherished
rule-optimized yachts. This was through the CCA period, but also included
the early years of the IOR.

The SS34 has a high rating and rates like a floating concrete barge on
paper
*because* of her short waterline. But her waterline increases
dramatically
when heeled, and its shortness is a distinct advantage for minimizing
wetted
surface area off the wind. That's why the boat sails well above her
rating.
In fleets where SS34s are raced regularly against other boats, the PHRF is
almost always modified to around 145 in order to allow the other boats to
win. Seriously. But there are only 46 of them in existence, so they
aren't
exactly overrepresented in racing fleets around the country. What I do
know
is this: we can easily sail to weather, both in pointing ability and boat
speed, with a Catalina 34, and are quite a bit faster to weather than a
Pearson 33. We sail almost exactly knot for knot with a Tartan 34 with a
keel/CB and a competent skipper (much experience against that boat and
crew). We can't keep up with a Catalina 36 or most larger boats to
weather.
Off the wind we can sail with boats that should be quite a bit faster, and
that's wing and wing. With main and our asymmetric spinnaker we leave
them
behind. This boat sails consistently at half the wind speed in anything
over 5kts. up to about 14kts. Then it holds in around 6.5 to 7kts. unless
surfing. All those speeds are confirmed via GPS, by the way.

I'll tell you what I've told Bubbles: don't always presume that what you
see on paper has anything to do with reality. I'm sorry to say that your
boat probably can't stay with a SS34 on any point of sail. Don't take my
word for this--read all about the Luders 34 in Ferenc Mate's book, Best
Boats.

I like your boat, by the way. Looks like a great cruiser in the photos.

Max


The SeaSprite 34 was such a great performer that demand was overwhelming.
After
making less than 50 boats, they had to stop production due to enormous
stress!

I don't normally respond to this blathering idiot, but he's so full of it on
this point that some info needs clarification. The SS34 was built by one
Clark Ryder of C. E. Ryder yachts, a semi-custom firm in Bristol, RI. Clark
built boats until he was driven out of business by the ill-conceived luxury
tax on boats over $100K. The SS34, and its sisterships, the double-ended
Southern Cross cruisers, were expensive boats, built not for the masses, but
on a semi-custom basis. They were too expensive to compete with the
mass-produced boats of the time, but did well in sales with people who
wanted quality boats and were willing to pay for them. At least until the
luxury tax sank the business, and many others simultaneously.

Meanwhile, if you want essentially the looks of a 60's cruiser in a boat
with at
least moderate performance, you can look at a Robinhood 36, which is what
the
deadseasprite wishes it could have been.

I'm sure you're clueless (you generally are) as to what a Robinhood 36 is,
so I'll fill you in. It's nothing more than a Cape Dory 36 bearing the name
of the yard that now builds the design. It's a great boat, fast, and very
similar in performance to the SS34. The Cape Dorys and subsequent
Robinhoods appealed to essentially the same potential buyers as the Sea
Sprite series of boats did in their day.

The Seasprite was not a successful design by any measure.

Tom Morris has only sold a handful of Morris 36s. Does that mean it's not a
successful design as well? How about Steve and Linda Dashew's Deerfoot and
Sundeer boats--only a handful of them are in existence. Are they equally
unsuccessful? By your reasoning (really an inappropriate term for the
Redclod) the Ferrari Enzo is also a failure, so few of them exist. Your
Hunter/Chevy Cavalier mentality isn't equipped for understanding such
vessels and vehicles.

Max