Doug, I think we've taken up all the bandwidth on this NG we should on
this subject...rec.boats.building still has the lowest trash-value ratio
of any NG...I'd like to help keep it that way, and this has wandered
considerably afield from anything to do building or repair. If you want
to move the discussion to email, I'll be glad to continue it:
peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net.
Peggie
DSK wrote:
They do if you know how to search USCG and insurance comapny records.
Do you think an insurance comapny pays out $10K+ on boat claims and
doesn't keep a record??
Peggie Hall wrote:
But the boat would have to be documented--most aren't...some states
don't even title boats--and the buyer would have to know who the
insurance company was--if in fact, the boat WAS insured.
That's a possible problem.
Officially, any accident or loss involving a claim of a fairly small
amount (IIRC it's around $600) must be reported on a Coast Guard
accident form. Just like if you put in a claim on your car, you have to
file a police report.
But you have a good point, not all storm damage is going to be
documented. Personally, I wouldn't buy a boat from a guy who was too
cheap or too stupid to have it insured, because IMHO it's almost a
guarantee that he didn't take good care of it.
... Fewer than 10% of boat buyers even bother with a survey or know
they should, much less how to search a boat's history.
For big boats? Really? I didn't know that. Even brand new boats should
get a buyer's survey.
Many surveyors will amiably write down what you tell them you paid
for the boat.
Not any legitimate ethical surveyor!
Whoa there! There is no breach of any ethics, and I've heard it
happening quite a lot... that's on both coasts, too. The yacht surveyor
is not an economics expert and he's not a salesman, nor is he a repair
contractor. A surveyor is *not* an appraiser of dollar value, he is an
appraiser of the boats functional condition!
Market value goes up & down by season, by location, by the whims of
national & local economics... asking your surveyor for a hard dollar
appraisal is simply hanging numbers in mid air. Most likely he's got a
good idea, possibly better than the buyer. But the one who can tell you
what the last 5 boats of that type actually changed hands for is the
broker... but he has a vested interest in getting the higher possible
price out of the buyer.
The surveyor does not have a vested interest other than giving
information to the buyer. Assigning a value to the boat which allows the
buyer to finance or insure the boat is no breach of ethics... or even
etiquette... unless he's doing something like colluding to get a
kickback... or if he allows the buyer to remain ignorant of a safety
issue with the boat, which is his real job anyway.
... When I bought the Trojan (for cash btw) I needed a survey for
insurance. The surveyor gave me a list of things that had to be
corrected in order my insurance carrier to cover it for anything but
"port risk"--iow, it couldn't leave the slip except for any mechanics'
sea trials. I had 30 days to correct, or my insurance would be
cancelled.
Yep. That's not so unusual.
Some surveyors seem to specialize in 'knock-down' surveys that help
you negotiate with a seller...
Again, no legitimate ethical surveyor.
You have a funny idea about ethics. This is *exactly* why the buyer
should not run out and hire the surveyor recommended by the broker.
True. All you need to do is wait!
Unless you're buyin'...
heh heh an eager buyer is like a lamb being led to slaughter.
When my husband died in '92, I'd have been lucky to get more than
$45k for my 34 Sea Ray...by the time I sold her in '96, the market
had recovered...I had no trouble getting $60k.
That was good, although a small part of that would be accounted for
inflation and better bank rates at that time frame.
The galloping inflation of the '80s was over by then...it was pretty
much flat in the '90s.
Not trying to be a jerk here, but that's not quite true. Inflation was
"flat" at 2% ~ 3% which could add up over 4 years to ~ $5k, or about 1/3
of the gain in your price. Significant? IMHO it is.
with all the factory upgrades and options. By 1996 '80s inflation and
other factors (fewer new units, same overhead for boat builders) had
doubled the price of a comparable new boat.
Same thing has happened with sailboats. But the basic designs have
gotten better, so you're getting something for the money. And keeping
them has gotten cheaper (relative to inflation) most places.
One of the issues that affect boats, cars, & houses, is the going
interest rate. If that rises (which it's sure to do) then payments
for a given boat (or car or house) will go up and it's marketability
will go down.
That's the beauty of restoring a "project boat"...by the time I was
done, I had everything a $180k comparable new boat had to offer for
$43k--which is about what you'd have to put down on a new one. And no
payments.
Yep... and you had a boat that you were familiar with, equipped the way
you wanted, instead equipped the dealer wanted.
I'm all in favor of fixing up boats, I just don't think it's a practical
way to make a living except for very few people.
I think I know exactly who you mean, a feisty old gal and extremely
knowledgable. She did a boat survey for us and did me a big favor by
helping dis-enchant my wife with a boat that was a disaster.
That would indeed be Bolling Douglas.
Yep. She's the top.
... She has sat on and/or chaired every industry standards committee
and the board of ABYC...she's forgotten more than most surveyors ever
learn.
I'd also be interested in her opinion on whether or not surveyors are
responsible for giving buyer a cash value appraisal of the boat 
(I'm cheating, she had an apprentice in tow when she surveyed our
avoid-at-all-costs boat and I heard what she told him on the subject).
Unfortunately, there's no regulation for surveyors that guarantees
they all have to be that ethical...'cuz there are a bunch of
charlatans out there.
Well, I wouldn't go that far... a few, sure... most become surveyors
because they love boats. There are drunks and incompetents in every
field. Boat surveying is really complex and there is no way you can look
at *everything.* The first rule of thumb is that your surveyor is going
to miss something. A good surveyor (and I think most are pretty good)
are more like detectives in that they are hunting for clues about past
or impending problems, because you'd have to disassemble the boat... or
operationally test it under severe conditions... to actually see the
problem first hand.
Y'know this has wandered quite far from the original question.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304