*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
*JimH* wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
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In article , says...
Remind me again where I said this passage is about teaching a man to
fish.
If you can reply without name calling it would truly be a miracle.
You didn't state that. However, after Bert said, "If Jesus had been a
liberal he would have passed out fish instead of teaching people to
fish" and I cited the Bible story where Jesus passed out fish to 5,000
people (without asking any of them to learn to fish), you offered your
passage in rebuttal. That would seem, by extension, to be supporting
Bert's statement that Jesus didn't pass out food to hungry people and
instead told them to go learn to fish.
Nope. I simply asked jps how he would interpret the passage I quoted. His
interpretation was spot on and provided support to my initial point.
Still confused, sorry.
I don't have any idea whether you are a Christian or not, and it
doesn't really matter;
do you agree or disagree that according to the 14th Chapter of Matthew
Jesus passed out free fish to 5000 hungry people? Do you feel that the
story never occured and is simply a metaphor illustrating the wise
husbandry of natural resources (fish and grain) managed for abundance
rather than exploited for profit? (That's still a reasonably liberal
idea- if Jesus had been a conservative with enough bread and fish to
feed 5000 hungry people he would have done a quick bit of market
research and determined what the going price ought to be. just
kidding!)
Do you agree or disagree with Bert's statement that Jesus would be more
likely to tell a hungry person to go and learn to fish, and perhaps
even offer free fishing lessons, than to alleviate the immediate
hunger?
A group I am loosely associated with helped feed hot chili and chicken
soup to over 200 homeless and people yesterday in Occidental Park, near
Pioneer Square. In about half an hour, I will be going back downtown to
work a breakfast in the basement of an old church, where something
around another 200 people will come in for a hot, sit-down meal. We
used to do the Saturday feedings at another park just a few blocks
away, but frankly the "Christians" ran us out. One guy who was sort of
afraid, I guess, to set foot in the park filled with homeless people
would stand across the street and yell about hell-fire and damnation on
a bullhorn. He was bent on convincing these folks that the next bad
decision they made was going to send them straight to hell, where they
would burn and suffer for eternity. Another woman who couldn't sing to
save her life would stand in the park and bellow "Amazing Grace", "The
Old Rugged Cross", and etc- also through a bullhorn. I suspect the
folks with the bullhorns threatening eternal suffering in hell or
providing some contemporary suffering through really awful and
ridiculously loud singing would probably inspire people to go learn to
fish. :-) Maybe Bert was right.
I sort of see feeding the indigent poor sort of like being a fireman.
You can drive down the street and see a house and say, "Oh, look. That
house isn't being cared for very well. The yard is overgrown, the paint
is peeling off, the porch is sagging and the roof looks bad. It
probably needs better plumbing, wiring, and should be remodeled to
include a media room.
We should pressure the owner to improve his property and bring it up to
neighborhood standards. Oh, and yeah- by the way, it's on fire." First
thing you do is put out the fire.
If our little group feeds 400 people a month, for a year, that's 4800
meals. I would guess that 4799 lives will probably not be significantly
altered as the result of a cup of hot chili or a plate of biscuits,
sausage, gravy, (and sometimes eggs). But if one person, during the
year, either makes a good decision or avoid making a bad one because
they have something in thier stomach for a while and that puts their
life on a slightly more positive course then it's all worth it.
Would Jesus feed the people in the park of serve breakfast in the old
church? Who knows.
It isn't really about religion, it's about demonstrating some
compassion and doing a very small, somewhat insignificant thing to
alleviate some want and suffering. Whatever Jesus would do, my point is
that there is no Biblical evidence that he would respond to hungry
people by suggesting they go and learn to fish. Heck, according to
another story he even
provided wine to a bunch of folks at a wedding party who had *already*
consumed the party's entire supply and couldn't have been entirely
sober. Maybe he should have told them to go plant a vinyard. :-)