I am talking about singling out pwc's among boaters at large (not
sailboats)
as being uniquely predisposed to annoying, stupid, dangerous, illegal
behavior; and also

They are and I am. Sorry, but it's a fact. I know you don't want to
acknowledge that there is a huge problem, but there is. That's why
some places have banned them I suppose.

And the fact that a lot of the "problems" are in fact based on
prejudice, personal irrational dislike and outdated stereotypes or just
outdated information about these machines, might be the reason why,
after analytic studies are done, so many of the former bans have been
rolled back, reversed and eliminated.

Can't think of anything positive to say about pwc's? I'll help you out
by pointing this out again: since mandataory boating education and
licensing requirements have been instituted in many states over the
last decade or so, pwc-related accident and injury statistics have gone
down by the year in their states. These regulations have been
promoted and supported by the pwc industry and riding community. What
has any other segment of the power boat community done analogously over
that same period of time to reduce the amount of stupidity and
uninformed dangerous behavior on the water? Have power boaters at
large rallied in support of mandatory education and licensing
requirements for all boats, or do you/they think that this wouldn't be
a good idea for everyone? Are you even aware of any of this, or is it
just more proof that you just don't know anything about the topic at
hand (pwc's).

Nothing good to say about pwc's? Do some research and you'll find that
the ones being manufactured now (and I'm talking about at least the
last 6 model years) have shown to be among the QUIETEST and
CLEANEST-RUNNING and most FUEL-EFFICIENT power boats on the water, as
well as being probably the most affordable, easiest to store and
maintain?

In fact, do you have anything positive to say about boats in general?
Because if so you have something positive to say about pwc's because
THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE. THAT is what started me into this whole thread,
the idea that somehow pwc'ers are not boaters, that is the overall
point I started making so emphatically and repeatedly, that WE ARE.
NOt that we're perfect, not that there aren't plenty of idiots among us
just as there are across all segments of the boating world, not that we
don't have problems although we've made TREMENDOUS strides in the time
that I've been around, but simply that we ARE BOATERS, the SAME as
anyone else. Same rules to learn and follow, same things to worry
about, the same passion for being on the water, having outdoor fun with
our friends and families, travelling, cruising, enjoying the
exhiliration of a fast ride...that's it. I refuse to sit at the back
of the bus!

What is up with this drinkin and drivin thing? I just don't get that?
What point are you trying to make?

My point (I don't think it was that hard to discern) is that pwc
operators don't have any kind of lock on stupid, dangerous, illegal,
annoying boating behavior on the water, that all kinds of boats,
whatever their size or shape, are frequently operated by clueless
inconsiderate oblivious idiots....and similarly there are many
responsible, informed, thoughtful, careful, aware operators of both
pwc's and of power boats of other sizes and shapes. Neither of us
knows the exact percentage either way, there are way too many variables
to assign any kind of realistic number, but my position is that it is a
sign of ignorance, nastiness and hardened, long-held, inflexlible,
prejudiced judgements, to make broad sweeping generalizations about any
specific group of boaters based on the size and shape of the boat they
choose (or can afford). Like, I might be tempted to think that all or
most sailboaters are snobby, pretentious, effete, hoity-toit,
self-important blowhards (ha, good one!); or that everybody on a small
fishing boat is a drunken redneck; or that everyone who owns a yacht is
just a rich asshole who preferes to stay high and dry and show off
their wealth; but all of these opinions would actually be stupid and
unfair, and if I tried to pass them off as valid, intelligent
positions, I would expect people from those segments of the boating
world to maybe have their feathers ruffled a bit.

Do you get it now?

I'd say that the vast majority don't drink and drive, just
like the vast majority of car owners don't

Okay, now I know you're kidding. The ratio of boaters drinking on the
water is about the same as that of drivers on the road? I guess it's
obvious that conditions are obviously different between where you boat
and all the many places I've boated....in terms of boaters drinking,
and in terms of pwc'ers being obnoxious and annoying...I guess that
would have to explain the gulf between our respective impressions.

Well, you need to get out more... well, I take that back. You have a
PWC.
Oh no... here comes the missing sense of humor.....

I have a sharper, more developed sense of humor than you, I'm positive
of it; but you don't seem to have made that remark in any kind of
friendly good humor, more out of meanness, like I know you literally
don't want to welcome me onto the waterways where you boat, you have as
much as said so, just based on the size and shape of my boat's hull,
and that's just not right. Hey, once you see me, individually, do
something stupid and obnoxious or dangerous or blatantly inconsiderate
(I"m not sure I'm convinced that "annoying" is enough of a legit
complaint, anyone can be annoyed by anything), then feel free to have
me kicked out of there....but to form an opinion of me and want me out
of there as soon as you see me coming, just based on the fact that I'm
a pwc? It just ain't right.

richforman