Following up my own post to combine replies' feedback.

First, let me say thank you for the ideas which are starting to flow from
this exchange. Still no answers, but at least ideas pertinent to the
question.

So, to the current crop:

From:
Skip, no need to limit yourself to 12 volt devices as long as they have
110 volt adapters. The price of small inverters is down to about $30
and they work fine. I have several on my boat for powering laptops,
charging cell phones, etc.

Actually, I'll have plenty of AC. I just want to limit the amount of stuff
I have to do and clutter I'll create. Running two wires up the mast just
makes it more difficult. Of course, any device will no doubt have an
adapter, because they're not designed for remote powering, usually, or
accomplish it via POE. Given that Cat5 has 4 unused points, I could
actually have three different power levels as long as I didn't mind a common
negative, and wasn't concerned for solid strand tiny (and untinned) wires
trying to carry an amp about 100 feet by the time we're finished with
sourcing and running the power up the mast :{))

From: "Damian James"

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:59:27 -0400, Skip Gundlach said:
... My challenge is to get the signal not only out of the
boat, but down to my laptop, wirelessly. I can do one or the other
brilliantly. So far I haven't done both in one box.

So don't. Keep a cheap wireless AP in the cabin in your boat, run UTP
ethernet
cable to the masthead device, along with the 12V, presuming you were
already
running that. The requirement then isn't whether the high-gain kit can
send a
usable omni signal too, but whether it has an ethernet interface.

Well, actually, that is a problem. The two I had, one wireless AP,
connected via cat5 to the bridge, constantly was in some sort of conflict.
Putting these two next to each other on the bench, connected to each other
with cat5, shouldn't engender conflict messages (should it?). As to omni
signals, that's an antenna function, and easily solved.

You might have a look at some of the many websites about building wireless
community networks. There's even a book of that title on O'Reilly press
these
days. These places will be where pushing the limits or 802.11 gear is
routinely
discussed.

So far, all I get is talking to like units for range, and those in between
can also see the signal. My problem has been to have an omni-talker (vs
omni-directional) setup, as well as the conflict issue. However, if you can
direct me to something which relates to a wifi computer talking to some
single device which can see APs in other (diverse, not the same equipment,
unencrypted) locations, that (I think) is what I'm looking for.

To recap the original, the AP and Bridge were Senao 200mw 2611 deluxe units,
connected via cat5, both 12V. Not elucidated, I don't think(recall), was
the AP had a (5+dBi) rubber duck to see me (and any others who looked with
their wifi setup) and the bridge had an 8.5dBi stick to see and talk to
places far away. Never got to talk to each other on the bench, let alone up
the mast. Always a conflict whenever I connected the two together,
regardless of the IP configuration(s) used.

There are links to some such networks at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_community_network

For what you are proposing, as I understand it, two antennas/interfaces
seems to be the go. If you consider they are doing different jobs, it
makes
sense. It's only a pity the masthead device is USB: if it were ethernet,
all

It's not. It's straight 12V, with wireless signal. My *cockpit* antenna is
USB. If I didn't mind having my computer connected via ethernet, the bridge
would work fine. I want a wireless solution. Putting an AP at the nav and
running the ethernet up the mast doesn't solve the problem, as it can't even
do it on 4" (the custom one I built) or the standard 3' pigtail, on the
bench.

you'd need would be an inexpensive wireless AP that is also an ethernet
switch.
As a bonus, any non-wireless computer you subsequently installed onboard
would
have a wired switch port to connect directly to.

Well, yes. As above about wired connections/wireless goals. So, is,
somehow, the Senao unit unsuited to the job, being only either AP or bridge?
I'd sure love to do some cheapie solution rather than the more expensive one
currently trying to talk to the bridge!

Also note that you're not restricted to devices that come with supply
units
that can run off 12V: most devices like this have extremely modest demands
and dc-to-dc supplies of various capabilities are readily available.

Agreed. However, as above about simplicity. See more below...

From: "Terry Spragg"
Skip, packet switching should seek out survivable routes for each
packet.

I'm sorry, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to get the connection here. I
don't think routing is the issue, though, if system conflicts are caused by
routing problems, perhaps that's an attack I can follow.

Currently, I've disputed the amount with my credit card company, who's
temporarily credited against the supplier, who says 'it isn't convenient for
me to provide technical support at this time' - but has, in the past, worked
with me to try to sort this out (unsuccessfully). If there's a solution
which will allow me to keep these two units (fine, powerful ones) and make
them play nice, I'm happy to do that.

Late to join, sorry if I just missed some basic to this proposition.

Why not just use an antenna cable about 6 feet up the mast to avoid
long AE run losses at giga frequencies, use two wireless hubs below
decks, with one AE on each side of the mast? Ethernet them together
and let it fly? I wonder if software would handle switching well in
a yawing environment, linked to shore. Seems to me the internet was
designed for multi routing and survivability. On a dock or two
anchors, you could replace the shoreside omni with a steerable beam
if you needed longer reach. (Sorry to rub your shoulder wounds the
wrong way;-)

Heh. No problem. I very much doubt I'd need more than the antenna setup
I've envisioned, and anything more than omnidirectional is more work than I
want to do, so it's moot, anyway.

As to two antennae shortly up the mast, as Larry is fond of saying WRT
antennae, height is your friend, so mast-top it is. Getting the signal
there wants to be wireless, though I could, per above discussions, get my AP
to the bridge that way (ethernet) if it were necessary.

Another item, mentioned in other commentary before, is that this would also
serve other cruisers in the area, as they'd see my AP and be able to use it
as well, as I'd intentionally leave it open (more below).

Might need one wireless router to act as a hub, the other as
gateway. What would happen if you moved a wireless laptop around on
deck while connected? Packet switching is a wonderful tool.

That was exactly the idea. Not necessarily to be moving around, but not to
be connected by wires, and to be anywhere on deck, or even in the dink at
the nearby shore, for example. However, just to be sure I'm on firm ground
with the terminology, are you suggesting *3* units, two of which can talk to
the bridge (point to multi-point)?

D-links need 5 volts. You can get that from 12 volts. I wonder at
range and antenna directivity effects of the mast reflector element.

As it happens, that's what came with the setup first, returned for
extra-cost upgrade to the second Senao unit (to solve the voltage difference
and simplify powering). Certainly, if the antenna were next to the mast, it
would change the pattern of an antenna severely. In my setup, I'd use the
stick out the top (no antenna shadow/reflection) and the duck out the
bottom, or perhaps the side (the better to see on deck, belowdecks).
However, in close proximity like that (75 feet max anywhere aboard), even
putting the duck on the top should work, I'd think.


It's nice to have multiple redundancy at sea. The nearby fleet could
share any connections all around a mooring. Kids might be happy to
net game on rainy anchorages.

That's about what I had in mind. I think I'd make it stealth, rather than
advertise that it was my boat, in the event that any governmental agency
might get upset about it, but the end result is just what I was thinking.

and, finally...

From: "HotRod"

Amazing that I'm even willing to respond after such a ****y response, do
you

Heh. Amazing that I should have responded at all given the obliquity and
non-connectivity. But I did say I was grouchy from the pain.

Long timers here recognize that I have a low tolerance for digression, and
reflexively change topics when it's not the one which started. Perhaps,
despite my spelling corrections in my title, it's time for that again so
folks don't get lost in the forest (this thread is almost long enough to
engender guns or anchors at some point soon).

So, since I don't recognize your handle, I presume you've not been around
long enough to recognize me for what and who I am. Likewise, me, too, for
you. Perhaps we'll learn to live with each other...

want help from people here or a flame war? You should be able to look at
almost any router / bridge out there. If you flip them over you will
notice
that all of them run on a lot less than 110V. I currently use an APC
(Backpack) that has a small inverter (12V) that can power or charge my
laptop, PPC, cellphone and run a wireless router all from one cigarette
lighter. The voltage on my linksys routers are around 5v. I'm not sure
I've
seen a solution that will do what you are asking for, you might consider a
small router and hawking antenna up on the mast with only the 5v to power
everything up.

Ah, but you see, that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. As above about
the wiring. Perhaps a router might do the job that an AP would not? I
really would like to be able to give others access, too, which makes it seem
necessary that the router also be an AP. The Hawking antenna is USB, and
not nearly the power I envision, not to mention that it's highly
directional. However, I really don't care what solution there is, so long
as it's set-and-forget.

Being ****y again, I don't recall ever saying I had a problem with 110 volts
in any unit I'd looked at. I just don't want 48V (one recommendation), 5
and 12 (your situation) or other complications to running a suitable grade
line up the mast to power whatever I've got up there with 12V.

To recap, I want to be able to communicate with wireless stations ashore,
which my laptop antenna can't reliably do on its own. I *could* connect to
the Senao bridge via ethernet and, with a big stick, make that connection.
But I want to do it wirelessly. What I've been told (which may well be
wrong, but it's by a supplier from which I expected to just buy a bridge
from, thinking the antenna would see me and the shore easily) is that I need
an AP for my computer, and a bridge for the shore, both connected and
talking to each other (thus the pigtail between the two units I have in
hand) as well as outbound in both directions (deckside/dink/harbor and
shoreside).

Sorry if I ruffled your pipes. I'm just frustrated and in pain and without
even my own computer, it being off for nav upgrade.

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain