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On 11 Aug 2005 17:50:47 -0700, wrote:

John H. wrote:
On 11 Aug 2005 16:15:20 -0700, wrote:

John H. wrote:
On 11 Aug 2005 15:42:19 -0700, wrote:

John H. wrote:
On 11 Aug 2005 09:52:17 -0700, wrote:

wrote:
wrote:

Unfortunate.

What does it profit progressives if self-defined spokespeople simply
sound like
Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, MIchael Savage, Anne Coulter, (and many of
their neo-conservative disciples posting to groups like this) in
reverse?

The problem is, that if a liberal debates ANYTHING that has spewed from
BushCo et al., then the Bush lemmings automatically call that being
shrill or whiney.

Listen to neo-con propaganda on the radio sometime. Those adjectives
"shrill" and "whiney" are used incessantly by a couple of nationally
syndicated hosts. It is no surprise when people who regurgitate the
nonsense almost line-by-line use the same derisive terms to describe
moderates and liberals.

I already listened to right wing radio this morning, and I have finally
figured out, I think, just why these people (and all propagandists) are
so effective. Most people are intellectually lazy- they know they are
supposed to have values and opinions, but they aren't sure about how to
form them or what to base them on. In an era of instant this, instant
that, any of the propagandists (left or right) appeal to people looking
for ready made values. You will notice that propagandists have an
absolute answer for everything; not merely an opinion or a set of
personal beleifs but rather a divinely annointed moral truth. (A truth
so divine that it must be made the law of the land and imposed on
everybody, left or right). The only problem with adopting ready made
values (left or right) rather than developing some genuine,personal
beliefs and an individual moral code is that the artificially imposed
world view never seems to take permanent root. The neo-converts (to the
left or the right) need a new fix almost every day to keep on drinking
the Kool Aid without questioning.

You know its working when nearly all of the people on one side of the
political/philosophical fence or the other seem to be discussing the
same issues, on the same days, and repeating the same arguments (and
adjectives) almost word for word.

People who have been robbed of the ability to form individual opinions
(by the left or by the right) are victims. Those victims should be
pitied, not challenged.

As a people, we likely aren't going to wake up to the fact that the
current polarization is serving the interests of a small group of
powerful people who really aren't liberal or conservative- but who are
enemies of freedom and democracy and have much to gain by fanning the
flames of hatred and intolerance between various political and
philosophical parties. If we're concentrating on the red guy, or the
blue gal, we're distracted from the low profile creeps who hope to
profit from the demise of our free society.

It's sure nice to see that all the liberals have something new to say every day,
Chuck!

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

Friendly suggestion for you, John. Try imagining a world where "all"
the liberals or "all" the conservatives don't look, think, believe, and
act the same way. You may find it enlightening.

Gee Chuck, your 'friendly suggestions' seem to work in only one direction! I
don't recall a 'friendly suggestion' after this:

"The problem is, that if a liberal debates ANYTHING that has spewed from
BushCo et al., then the Bush lemmings automatically call that being
shrill or whiney."

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

In that case, you must have overlooked my comments about propagandists
in general (left and right). Take another pass through the thread, and
you'll see that my comments about propagandists are not exclusively
directed at the right wing- even though the right wing has the majority
of the audience at the moment. Divisive hate speech and stereotypcial
absolutes promoted by the left are just as damaging as that same
activity from the well known propagandists setting the political and
philosophical tone for much of the right wing.

I actually know a handful of reasonable, rational, sincere and
thoughtful conservatives. These people cannot be characterized with the
same brush that articles like the one posted by basskisser attempts to
apply to conservatives in general. Most of the reasonable, rational,
sincere and thoughtful conservatives I know don't subscribe to the
"liberals all do this, that or something else......" nonsense either.
They are too reasonable, rational, sincere and thoughtful to buy into
that simplistic crap.

One point stands regardless; Most of the time when you hear a right
winger use the terms "shrill" or "whine", it is context of a statement
of train of thought currently being promoted by one of the prominent
right wing radio personalities.

Most of the time I don't hear it. In fact, until you and bk started talking
about it, I don't recall *ever* hearing it. But then, I tune into Hannity for
about 10 minutes only on those occasions when I'm waiting for my wife at the
metro.

But, I don't listen to Air America either, so I can't say *anything* about the
liberal radio folks. I assume they're all 'fair and balanced'?

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

I can't agree or disagree about "liberal" radio, as I never go out of
my way to listen to any overtly liberal programming. I don't know that
"Air America" is even on the dial in my area of the country. I try to
listen for at least a few minutes each day to the local and nationally
syndicated right wing talk shows. It is enlightening and beneficial to
tune into the comments of folks with whom I typically disagree.
Listening only to people you generally agree with most or all of the
time does not foster any personal growth.

So listening to Hannity and Limbaugh fosters your personal growth? Well, have at
it.

Reading the NY Times and Washington Post must be fostering the hell out of mine!

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD