On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:19:46 -0400, HarryKrause
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 20 Jun 2005 05:12:27 -0700, wrote:



Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On 17 Jun 2005 21:32:26 -0700, wrote:


Screw the war, but honor the troops.

With all due respect Chuck, the troops are the war. You can't hate
one and love the other - they are one and the same.

Sure one can! While I have respect for the soldiers that were put in
harm's way by Bush, I think that the war they are fighting is riddled
with lies, mistakes, and deceit.


Well, I've stated my case. You cannot separate the two - it's
impossible in the legal, logical, moral and ethical frames of
reference. War is the soldier, the soldier is war - ain't no other
way around it.

If you despise war, then you, by extension, cannot anoint the warrior
as somehow being honorable and above the fray - the guns don't fire by
themselves. It is a willful act to aim, squeeze, shoot and kill the
human you are aiming for. Note the kill - as in dead - murder most
foul if you will.

Tom, there have been any number of great leaders throughout history who
have stated they "despise" war (or negatives just as strong) and who
have held their soldiers in high esteem. The father of our country,
George Washington, hated war.

I understand that. And I agree. The soldier does a dirty job - the
job that nobody else wants to do.

However, you cannot make the leap from hating a war and loving the
very people who make that war possible. You are either for it or
against it - you can't be both.

I fully appreciate the reasons for stating that the war is illegal and
that it is not worth the effort and that we entered into it on dubious
evidence. I understand that.

However, you cannot separate the act of war and the very people who
make it possible.

If you can, then you need to revisit the Nuremberg Trials transcripts
in which the act of following legal orders does not, in and of itself,
indemnify the soldier from all guilt resulting from performing acts of
war.

As to George Washington, I'm fairly familiar with that War and I can't
think of a specific quote or phrasing that indicated that he hated war
and the acts of war. After all, the only reason he was placed in
command of the Continental Army was because he had a uniform and
Benedict Arnold didn't. :)

However, I'm always willing and able to admit that I'm wrong.

Later,

Tom