"John Fereira" wrote in message
.. .
"rick" wrote in
ink.net:


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 15-Jun-2005, "rick" wrote:

Again, how
does a longer kayak "overall" not have a longer waterline
for the
same type hull

The original poster said nothing about "same type hulls." He
provided two overall lengths and asked for an assessment of
how the speed would compare. I correctly stated that one
cannot
determine that from the information on overall length.

But for a given
hull design, it still looks to me that that will be the
major factor
according to the sites I posted.

You're ignoring the data on the graph. The data comes from
Sea Kayaker magazine and clearly shows that there is no
correlation between overall length and resistance. Why do
you keep
insisting that there is?
====================
Beause you've failed to make your case against the other sites
I
have read.

Actually a very good case was made by posting information from
a credible
source on sea kayak length.

Of the three sites you posted one was about Canoes from someone
named Cliff
Jacobson. What are his credentials? The other two site
specifically talk
about water line lenght, not overall length, a point that Mike
has stressed
throughout this thread. The original poster asked for a speed
comparison of
two kayaks of similar overall length, and Mike correctly
pointed out that a
speed comparison can not be made based on overall length. In
response you
post three sites, one about canoes and the other two which
support Michaels
contentention that waterline length (not overall length) is an
influencing
factor.
=======================
I never claimed otherwise. He keeps asserting that overall
length is no indicator at all of waterline length. Most people
will recognise that typically the longer the boat, the longer the
waterline. In the discussion I was commenting on, he declared
length meant NOTHING to speed. He claimed 'many factors'
contribute to speed, but has yet to state what those are, even
after being asked. Again, I've never denied 'waterline' lenngth,
but going on about symantics doesn't prove anything.







See also:
http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-sys/cg...?The_Myth_Of_L
ength

No, I'm posting web sites that state the opposite of you,
not
MY
opinion. Which of course you have snipped.

No, you posted two web sites which agreed with him.
=================
No, I don't think so. He claimed "many factors" affect speed,
but length wasn't one of them.





Try reading a book on the hydrodynamics of hulls. C.A.
Marchaj's
"Sailing Theory and Practice" is a good one. You can also
stop
assuming that overall length and waterline length are
interchangable.

I was seriously asking for data.

I gave you some. It shows that there is no correlation
between
resistance and length for 24 common sea kayaks that have been
reviewed
in Sea Kayaker magazine.
========================
No, you did not answer the question I asked. You snipped it
out,
and ignored it. Why is that?

I read back through the thread and the only question you asked
was related
to canoes, not sea kayaks, which is what the original poster
was aksing
about.
==========================
Boats are boats. Being covered on top has no relation.



While Michael didn't answer the question directly (or maybe
just
hasn't given the answer you want to hear) he did answer it by
posting the
comparison of overall length vs water line length for 24 sea
kayaks.
=====================
No, he ignored, and snipped out the direct question I asked, and
repeating assertion about length does not answer the question I
asked, which was what are the 'many factors', since length plays
no part, in the speed of a boat.


I
don't think anyone is going to deny that a kayak with a 18'
overall length
is going to have a longer waterline than a kayak with a 14'
overal length
but the original poster was asking about two boats with that
much of a
difference in overall length.
=======================
Looks like Mike did. He claimed that overall length did not
correlate to waterline lenght.


The differences in overall length in the
boats that the OP was asking about was only about a foot and a
half and it
is entirely possible that the boat with the longer overall
length would have
a shorter waterline length, or at least be close enough that
the water line
length would have a negligable impact in kayak speed. That's
the point
that Michael has been making all along but you seem more
interested in just
arguing by tossing out red herrings that are irrelevant to was
the OP was
asking.
==========================
No, you seem to be selectivly reading what you want. I have
asked him what other factors are involved, he has refused to
answer, and continues his symantics about 'length'.