I gave up. No one seemed interested. Now you can carry the torch a
while. If you
decide to try, I'll support you. Get Harry convinced, and basskisser.

*********

There's no reason to carry any sort of torch. At all.
Every person here has the capacity to constructively influence the
group. It's simple:
We simply need to:

1) Take conscious control of and responsibilty for the tone and content
of our *own* posts. Nobody else can force us to behave badly, it's a
choice we make and need to be responsible for.

2) Avoid reading posts from people we find inflammatory. If we can't
read a from Person XXX without getting so upset that we react
shamefully, why read posts from Person XXX at all?
Sometimes, Person XXX only posts because he or she is hoping for a
ridiculous, emotional reaction from almost anybody. Responding with
insults and getting into a peeing contest with
such a person is like trying to douse a fire with gasoline. Wrong
tactic.

There is no way that any type of bad and/or destructive behavior by
anybody will turn this group around. If several people contest to see
who can be the biggest butthole, even if the stated purpose is to
"discourage others from behaving like a butthole," we wind up with a
group of contentious buttholes.

AFAIAC, the rest of the group can post whatever it wants. While I might
comment about certain practices, that stops well short of insisting
that everyone else should behave according to my preferences.(or taking
crazy steps when the group does not confrom to my wishes) Most of
these people are adults. More of the group could behave on an adult
level if it simply decided to do so.

Maybe you should consider picking the torch back up, but instead of
struggling to be torch-bearer for the entire community use it to light
your own way? :-)

You don't like Harry and basskisser? Don't read their stuff. It will
make a huge difference. The fact tha they exist on the same planet
shouldn't ruin your day.