And, the millions of people plunged into poverty because of the ban on
contraception? Hmmm.....that continues to this day, although I'm sure it's
digested with a wink and a nod by some people.

Disclaimer, for better understanding: I don't believe in joining clubs. Very
bad, whether it's a church or the boy scouts, or whatever.

"Me" wrote in message
...
I am not a catholic, but I have known many good Catholics. The Catholic
Church and Pope John Paul II formally apologized to the Jewish people for
ignoring their plight during WW II. The Catholic Church has instituted a
formal procedure to get rid of any pedophiles who are using the church to
prey on children. The actions of a few priest does not diminish the
excellent work done by the vast majority of priests. The fact that
ignorant bishops believed they could "cure" pedophiles through counseling
and religious works, should not minimize the good the Catholic Church has
done for society.

In the Protestant religions, there have been pedophiles who have molested
children. I went to a Presbyterian Church where a music minister was
found guilty of molesting kids. After the fact, we found out this was not
the first time. I went to a school where two teachers were found guilty
of having sex with underage kids. in the past there were school
principals who would try to quietly get rid of teachers who were guilty of
inappropriate behavior with students.

The actions of a few priest. music ministers, boy scout leaders or school
teachers should not diminish the excellent work of the majority.




"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
You're talking about individual people who have value. I'm referring to
institutions which have infections that are ignored, and therefore
condoned.

"Me" wrote in message
...
Doug,

I have no problem with the Dali Lama, The Emperor of Japan, or the
lunatic on the street communicating with God. Except for the lunatic,
they will have a large number of people waiting in line to "pay their
respects".

The institution of the Papal Office has enormous power, the same as "the
bully pulpit" of the US presidency. The way the person handles the
power will determine their legacy.

I disagreed with many of the policies of Bill Clinton, but when he dies
he will have many people standing in line "to pay their respects".
While Clinton was not perfect, he tried to the best of his ability to
make the US and the world a better place. 50% of American's endorsed
his agenda. I am glad that our leaders are remembered for their
contributions and efforts to improve society.



"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Me" wrote in message
...
The Catholic Church, along with every organized religion, have
situations in their history that wish they could forget. There have
been evil people who have tainted the reputations of every organized
religion, yet the major religions do provide excellent guidelines for
personal and social happiness.

Even lately, the Vatican has danced when certain aspects of recent
history have been questioned.


Pope John Paul II was not perfect, but his legacy as a decent strong
leader who made a positive impact on Catholics and Non-Catholics will
be remembered.

Actually, I think he was cool. This is not about him personally. I'm
especially amazed at much of what he did while still in Poland, and I
wish Martin Luther King had been around to see it. The two of them
would've seen eye to eye, as far as resisting evil and embarrassing
those who believe they're powerful.

However, you might want to think about this: Popes believe (loosely,
perhaps) that they have a special relationship or connection to god. So
do the emperor of Japan and the Dalai Lama. How do you feel about this?
Now....how do you feel about "civilians" who think god talks to them?
What if your wife says the same thing? How about an odd looking
homeless person ranting on a street corner? If you believe every
religious person has the same ability to communicate with god, then
logically, you cannot point to the pope as someone special. He's no
different than the guy with the biggest funny hat at an Elks club. He
just got lucky.