HarryKrause wrote:
wrote:
Hi Harry,
Honored I'm sure that you grace this thread with your renouned wisdom.
I've enjoyed reading your postings with relish time and time again!
I guess that I've figured that there is no "official pricing" on boats,
as it is a largely unregulated market, and because many folks don't buy
them based on rationality but after getting hooked at a Marina.
I can well understand that used prices are not an exact rocket science.
Among the zillions of points of view one can envisage, I see two
present in this thread which tend to cancel one another out:
A. Past prices make up the market, and thus an average of all prices
of boats sold is the real used boat price. The premise here is that
nobody in their right mind will sell you a comparable boat for
substantially less than another one might have sold for in the recent
past. This approach is however fundamentally flawed, because it fails
to take into account the people involved. Some folks might find it of
great value to unload their used boat fast at a very low price. Other
folks might never be able to live down the perceived loss of their
initial investment and prefer to wait for an imaginary buyer, leaving
the task of selling the boat to their heirs upon their demise. So the
real market price would be what two rational people, a buyer and a
seller, come to agree upon as a fair and "rational" price based upon
costs incurred by the initial owner, costs which will be transfered
with the purchase to the next owner, with some allowance for emotional
attachment of either party distorting the mix.
B. Extrapolations of technical and financial parameters establish the
value of the boat. Similarly to a cost accounting process, the
materials used, their ageing characteristics, their condition, a survey
of the boat, its features and options would constitute a rational basis
for estimating the value and price of a used boat. This approach also
fails to take into account the human factor. We're dealing with
emotional and sometimes irrational people who invest their ego and not
just their money into boats. We're talking dreams, aspirations,
expectations, and even neuroses getting projected into a boat's
purchase or sale. This means that in some cases both the buyer and the
seller make a deal and each feels that they've been burned. It can also
mean, though surely less often, that each party feels that they've made
out like bandits with a sweet sweet deal. Selling a used car I once
experienced that. It had given me so much trouble I advertised it well
under market price. The buyer was so excited he mailed me a check
without even seeing the car. He was a happy sailor. I was happy too, I
would have paid to get rid of it!
So please forgive me if I don't align my checkbook with actual sale
prices. Other people paid those prices for their own reasons which may
be sensibly different than mine. Prices tend to be "all over the place"
especially when, as you justly state, there is no organized used boat
market. So I'll keep my own grey cells as my best basis of pricing,
whether books, brokers or sellers think otherwise. I guess the real
market price I will end up paying (this will then become a "real" past
market price) is going to be what I'll be willing to pay = a lot of
boat for a lot of money.
Best,
Rich
A couple of months ago, in the doldrums of winter, as it were, I got the
idea (which thankfully has passed) that I would like to devote a lot of
spare time to refinishing/rebuilding a classic 28' deep vee fishing
boat. I found five boats that met my specs, all in what I would call
"fair condition. The model is somewhat in demand, but it hasn't been
built in, what, about two decades. Similarly equipped and in similar
shape, the owners' prices varied by $40,000, and were considerably
higher than any of the books.
My dad was a boat dealer. He subscribed to one of the boat pricing
books, and left them on the counter for his customers. When he sold a
used boat, it was based on "Bob's Pricing." If a customer said, "Hey,
Bob, that price is a little (or a lot) high," my dad would say, "Yeah,
well, all the used boats that leave here come with a 30 or 60 day
written warranty. I think this rig is worth $XX,XXX."
He only offered discounts to local policemen and firemen. Worked for him
for about 30 years in the business.
Used boat prices are negotiable, unless you are buying from a
reincarnation of my dad.
& the liar just can't help but lie:-)
Just like the brokers!!! so don't go near any of them. The brokers
don't even have a business, no investment, no capitol, nothing, they're
mostly failed used car salesmen & if you don't know what that means then
you deserve what you won't get.
As you said take the rego number go do a search of the title at say
your DMV or similar, then contact the real seller. You will find that
because the brokers are liars who will say anything to get a signed
listing the seller will be tied up for ages & the broker will be getting
his unearned commission regardless, so make sure "you" are not
introduced to the boat by the broker.
The broker doesn't care what price the seller gets really because the
commission is the commission & once they get the owner to spend money on
the boat on the false pretext of "helping get a better price" also the
broker gets it put in a "good selling marina" (all work, marina fees &
even surveys the broker is collecting their secret commissions on of
course:-)) they spend their lives grafting whatever kickback they can
get from anything or spruiking deceptive BS.
So essentially brokers are one of the few life forms below a franchised
boat dealer & that's almost life on Mars type stuff, however at least
the dealers have a real business, with real overheads, assets, stock &
staff etc, whereas the average slimey broker is just an unregulated
hangeron moron.
You've now been warned about both Krause the liar & the brokers, but
hey thanks for letting me file yet another of his lies:-) imagine if
that lying simpleton was "really" looking to buy a boat this winter???
what to go with all the rest of his imaginary boats??:-) & given his
entire life is lived as a union thug or through the NG he didn't make a
huge noise about it?? na this is just another of his lies, he's a
pathological BS'ter.
K
So the Krause lie of the day??? Here ya go:-)
So just getting back to the Hatt 43 lie:-) What happened was at
least 2 of the NG people lived near where he "claimed" he did & said
they'd settle if he owned a Hatt 43 or not by simply calling around &
taking a look:-) After all his usual abuse & fained "privacy" concerns
it was starting to look like his lying hide was about to be hung out to
dry:-)
This would be more than his ego could even contemplate, so in his
desperation not to be caught red handed (again:-)) he then lied again;
which despite it being totally unbelievable it allowed his damaged mind
to think he was still the big man his lies had created:-)
Doubt save to organise employment wrecking union strokes, he's
never even been to Florida but he desperately needed to get away from
the lie mansion & the lie Hatt 43:-)
We had the Hatteras for two years. Last year, out of the cold clear,
a broker approached me with an offer to buy. Our continued Florida
lifestyle was somewhat up in the air, because the two breadwinners
hereabouts were about to be offered long-term but temporary assignments
they could not refuse in the Washington, D.C., area. So, after being
romanced a little, we sold the Hatt for almost precisely what we paid
for it. Not bad, after two full years of use. And I mean full years. So,
we didn't "make" any money off the Hatt, but we didn't lose any, either.
The proceeds were prudently invested.