KMAN wrote:
....snip...

Tinkerntom. So I'm not sure why you think your religious
belief system is somehow disctinct from "what is usually
passed off as religion."

....snip...

yawn

The dictionary definition is a reflection of a common
understanding of the meaning of the word "religion."

You seem to be saying that your particular god blather is not
"religion." I am pointing out that it seems to fit pretty well
with
what most people would describe as a religion.
....snip...

You could address points instead of skipping over them. The key would
be to
skip the preambles and epilogues, which generally contain nothing but
senseless blather.

....snip...

All I can say to you KMAN, is that I am speaking of something
that goes beyond religion.

Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be
WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom!

I am not interested in religion per se; belief in,
reverence for, personal or institutional system, even if
grounded
in belief or worship, according to your text book definition.
All
these thing are things that man is doing

Right. A man like Tinkerntom. And I think he's about to do it
again. Notice how he won't be able to see the hypocrisy in this.

Was I right?

And notice that you are still thinking in terms of what man is
doing,
Religion! And are not able to open your eyes to see the possibility
of
what God is doing independent of man and religion! That is not
hypocritical, or a surprise, for someone that is blind and
clueless.
Not that there was not a time, I was any different than you, so I
understand, and I do not say these things to be mean or hateful
towards
you!

Oh, I agree, I don't think it's necessarily about being mean or
hateful to
what is around you, but more of an expression of the mean and hate
that is
inside of you.

Well I can discount this statement as being self serving, on your part,
because you don't know me to know what is inside of me. You are just
expressing your preconceived ideas against religion, which is not what
I am talking about anyway.

See Melissa, was correct, when she said, we put God in a box
(religion)
and then limit what He can do by our particular box, or at least as
far
as we are concerned. We limit Him to our words, phrases, and other
expressions of His activity. I am trying to see Him outside of the
box,
and encourage other to seek Him, and see Him, and what He is doing
as
well, without the limitations of the Box we call Religion.

Whatever She is doing, as soon as human beings start talking about
what She
is doing as though they are representing Her in some way, what you've
got,
Tinkerntom, is a religion.

And that is why, I encourage you to believe He is, and He is the
rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. That way it is not based on
what I say, but on your own experiential knowledge of His Love.

Even your reference to "She" indicates not religious liberty on
your
part, but just a different box. So though you protest you are not
into
God or religion, you in fact acknowledge and practice both!

Obviously religion exists, Tinterntom. Having fun with how religified
people
assign a gender to an omnipotent being and Capitalize it for Emphasis
is not
evidence that I practice religion any more than givin you the finger
is
evidence that I practice sign language.

Even if you
say I don't believe in God, that is a religion, with all the
accompaning practices, words and phrases!

What I say is that there is no god. Just as I say there are no two
snowflakes the same.

Just a different Box! You are
trapped, you can not get away from God! Even if you just ignore
Him,
and don't talk about Him or protest in any way, He is still there
very
near you! Now I agree, that could be creepy! That He loves you even
then, seems very strange! But then He is God!

It's a reality that I cannot escape religified discourse. But then I
can't
escape gun nut discourse, racist discourse, etc and so on (and of
course all
three of those go to together quite often). But fortunately I live in
a time
and place where I can deal with it rather well.

What does fortune have to do with it? Maybe God put you there because
He knew you could not deal with it elsewhere. If you can not get away
from God, that is one thing. If you bring up religion, and then claim
you can not get away from it, then that is a different issue.

....snip...

Then again, maybe religion is a barrier to personal growth and
fuller
enjoyment of life.

Do you think that could be possible Tinkerntom?

Religion is definitely a barrier to all kinds of things, especially
knowing God, and that is why I am not interested in religion!

You espouse religion on this newsgroup just about every single day.

Only because you ask! If you don't ask, as many here don't ask, and I
say nary a word to them about God.

You may be hindered by religion, since you seem to have the problem
with knowing God.

Religion is like going to a barbecue, and eating the gloves that
were
worn to put the meat on the grill. They got smoky, and have some
flavor
of the meat, but I want the steak! Man developed religion like the
gloves, to handle God, and manage the heat, and as you have pointed
out
distribute the benefits (power and control) of the barbeque. I
would
like to get beyond that and taste the real thing that God is about!

Well Tinkerntom, the only way I could see that being possible would
be to
use whatever motivation that you get from your belief system and use
it to
make the world a better place. But the minute you start yapping about
god,
you are just another religious practioner, and I'm sorry it bothers
you so
much that you ahve to try to deny that reality.


Doesn't bother me, I just know there is a greater reality beyond
religion, if you can't see it, who's blind? If you hear yapping, you
may be hard of hearing as well! That we all practice some form of
religion is not the question either.

I assure you that there is God

I assure you that there is no god.


And You base this conclusion on exactly what fact or observation?

....snip...

Whatever you are experiencing, as soon as you express it as a
religious
belief system (as you are doing) you are practicing religion. Sorry
that
bothers you. You and the pope are in the same business. He just has a
fancier car.

I'm sure he does, though I did not know the pope is a locksmith! Golly
you learn something new every day!

I took the liberty to do some snipping, if there is something you want
to discuss further, let me know.

Your whole argument comes down to the statement "I assure you that
there is no god."

I ask you what is the basis for your statement? TnT