BCITORGB wrote:
Tink, in reference to humanism:
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You talk about blind faith, this is dumb blind faith!
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And how is this different from the dumb blind faith of a religious
person?

Tink:
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This is like the old metaphysicist trying to conjure gold out of
clay,
or lead, or crap. Still does not work!
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Sorry, lead -- gold has been achieved many times. Here in Vancouver,
for example, at TRIUMF - Tri University Meson Facility.

Maybe in some super clean nuclear lab, but still not in the
metaphysicist caldron. The gnostics like Tom Harpur have been plying
there poison since the first century, and have not come up with
anything new. Any modern gnostic however noble, is limited to his
output; Garbage in, Garbage out!

Tink:
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A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful
through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our
intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who
differ from us.

More hogwash! If this life is an end in itself, all the history and
artistic achievments will be trash on the next generations dung heap!
Ask HST!
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What ARE you talking about. Secular humanists create (art, music,
teach, coach, etc) so as to leave a lasting impression. For us, it's
the only chance we've got.

We're not like crazed religious nuts who would fly planes into
buildings because there is some damned after-life.

There is NO after-life. That's why humanists do the best they can
while
they're here. They're the pacifists. The teachers. The artists. The
scientists. They're the ones who give a damn about making THIS life
better!

There are plenty of us who care about the here and hereafter! There are
Christian pacifist, Christian teachers, Christian artist, Christian
scientist, that care plenty, but also believe that there is God, and we
acknowledge Him in all we do, and look forward to.

But you are right on this point, it comes down to this; There is, or
there is no after-life. If you are wrong about there being no
after-life, and there is, you could be in for a few surprise! If I am
wrong, and there is not, then the worst that could happen, is that my
dungheap would be near yours, and if we could speak, you could say, I
told you so forever! But since you would not be able to speak, I will
not worry about it, and there won't be any surprises either!

And your logic about their art being trash on a dung-heap escapes me.

My after-life, insofar as there'll be one, exists in the impression I
leave behind. My after life rests entirely - solely - on my
achievements.

On this point, Tink, you haven't a clue!

frtzw906

So if you take all your artwork, and noble projects, and ideas, and go
out to the local landfill and decorate it so that it looks nicer, like
Cristo in Central Park. Invite in all the media, and take pictures and
write stories. Maybe get some sort of metal from congress for your
contribution to mankind. 100 years from now, shoot 30 years from now
for most of us, and it will just be a landfill. Not what I would want
to stake my reputation on, besides my eternal destiny, but then you
don't believe in the Eternal Destiny thing anyway. How comforting, and
encouraging to all those other fellow travelers marching in a row to
the dump. TnT