BCITORGB wrote:
KMAN says:
=============
a.. A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether
religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each
individual and not simply accepted on faith. ...

...
g.. A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas,
good
will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world
for
ourselves and our children.
==============

Great! Then I are one.

frtzw906

You seem to have missed copying some of KMAN list, so I thought I would
copy the whole list!

a.. A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether
religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each
individual and not simply accepted on faith.


What clean lab do you have access to conduct these measurements and
tests, that are not corrupted by the very humanity which you are
testing? Which of your lab technicians do you trust to run these test,
or do you actually run them all yourself, and each has to run them all
for themselves, and you expect to get equivalent and consistent
results? And this would result in data that is reliable enough to put
your faith in eventually! You talk about blind faith, this is dumb
blind faith!

There is the Bureau of Standards in Boulder, that would regulate any
test in the physical world. What bureau of standards do you ascribe to
in your test? Did you say you set your own?



b.. Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and
scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in
seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human
questions.

One of the main human problems is knowing what the problem is, any
observation is subject to the problem! Results in a questionable data
base that is surely corrupted! and answers none of the important human
conditions. Not only does not answer, but obviscates the truth, and
blinds the eyes of those who may take it upon themselves to run the
test themselves.

This is like the old metaphysicist trying to conjure gold out of clay,
or lead, or crap. Still does not work! Talk about faith and mysticism,
you have a better chance believing your going to win the next 1000
lotteries.



c.. A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both
the individual and humankind in general.

Noble hogwash at best. Works until someone cuts you off on the highway,
on the way to work at the lab! Or the grocery store clerk breaks the
eggs, and crushes the bread! Or someone breaks into the lab and ruins
all your tests, and you have to start all over. How many times a day do
you have to start over?


d.. A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding
that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect
perception of it.

A nice way of saying, I can't believe anything I say, and especially
what you say. There is nothing objective about it, it is all
subjective, and in particular subject to the human condition.



e.. A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful
through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our
intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who
differ from us.

More hogwash! If this life is an end in itself, all the history and
artistic achievments will be trash on the next generations dung heap!
Ask HST!



f.. A search for viable individual, social and political principles
of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human
well-being and individual responsibility.

Searching in the dark, Blind, you grab what you can, justify it as
ethical, and judge others by it, while they grabbed what they could,
and do the same to you. But you are both still in the dark at best, and
probably headed for the previously mentioned dungheap in e. above!


g.. A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good
will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world
for ourselves and our children.

What conviction, what corrupted reason, the shops are all closed! Will,
maybe but not free to be good! And Tolerance (some struggle when they
are told God loves them!) and for ourselves and our children. You won't
be around long enough to see your children, end up on their dungheap to
be able to change it for them, if you could.

And lacking all these, none of it matters, and if we had any of these
we would still end up on the dungheap.


But if it makes you feel better, go for it! Also know this, there is a
God, and He Loves you, and that changes the whole equation above. TnT