BCITORGB wrote:
Tink says:
==============
frtwz, Do you fade so quickly from the race, the game just began? We
are still figuring out the rules of the game.
=====================

Tink, I don't wish to be like rick and KMAN. You and I were having a
discussion. It had interesting possibilities. You showed me the error
of my thoughts. The end.


And then you continue, restart, so I will continue to play, unless I
hear another "End"

As you'll recall, I wished to demonstrate to you that right-wing
political policies, which I generally view as mean-spirited, could
not
have a basis in the Christian faith so many of you profess to follow.
I
was aiming at cognitive dissonance -- in you.

According to what you wrote above, you came into this discussion with
the preconceived ideas that right wing policies are mean-spirited, and
could not have a basis in the Christian faith as so many of us
Christians profess.

You actually came into the discussion with at least four preconceived
conclusions.
One, that right wing policies are mean spirited.
Two, that Christians share a common basis in expressing the Christian
Faith that we profess to follow.
Three that I am experiencing some sort of cognitive dissonance, and
Four, that you were aiming and able at exposing that CD. and delivering
me from it by enlightening my mind.


Instead, I was the one who had to shift my cognition of the Christian
faith. I was under some mistaken impression that JC was all about
love,
charity, peace, and forgiveness. I had, in my mind, some sort of
benevolent hippy-dude. Hence my proposition to you that JC would be
much more inclined to support liberal policies.

And that is why I am agreeing with you, not disagreeing at all. I
suspected these inadequate assumptions bad enough, in and of
themselves, and certainly not what you would want to base political
policy on, and especially concerning capital punishment. And I suspect
that you really did not care to have to attempt to support all of these
assumptions, expecially those to do with Christianity.

You made some common assumptions regarding your "impression that JC was
all about love, charity, peace, and forgiveness. I had, in my mind,
some sort of benevolent hippy-dude. Hence my proposition to you that JC
would be much more inclined to support liberal policies." Unless you
are willing and able to support this contention, I would suggest that
you not base your argument upon them, since as you acknowledge below
that you had the wrong impression, and were maybe no more substantive
than Disney-like Media. If I assume you mean like Bambi, Snow White,
etc, you would certainly be correct.

It is clear, however, after you've cited the appropriate scripture,
that I had JC figured all wrong. I don't know where I got my
impressions of JC from, given my very atheist upbringing. I can only
surmise that it was from some sort of syrupy, Disney-like media
presentations. From what you've presented about JC, in making your
case
that JC would support captital punishment, he is obviously anything
but
loving, charitable, peaceful, and forgiving. You show him to sanction
murder: state-sanctioned murder. Where is the love? Where is the
foregiveness?

Most Christians have based their lives on these common assumptions made
by those around us. It saves us having to really know what we believe
or really work to find out what the real issues of life are. It is easy
to drift along on the current of common assumptions.

Most Christians have also allowed this CD to exist in the minds of
those who they contend with, and come out basically smelling like a
bunch of wuss. Then those who watch, make the assumption that all
Christians are wuss. Then they conclude that not wanting to be wuss
themselves, they would not really be interested in this Christianity
thing for themself, Thankyou very much.

Now at the same time the watchers are deciding they are not interested
in being wuss, the Christians are trying to tiddy up their world by
being exceedingly "loving, charitable, peaceful, and forgiving," or at
least a reasonable facsimile of such. Again promoting the impression
further that Christians are "loving, charitable, peaceful, and
forgiving," wuss, translation, Doormats! And the watchers are even less
interested.

Now every once in awhile, the Christians get the idea, that they really
need to get involved in their world, so as to "save the World", and
what better way than in politics. They bring all their previous
accounted for baggage, but really not having any idea why they are even
here, and not knowing what the political issues of their day are, and
so at best just start making a bunch of noise. Sometimes they have been
aligned with the left, because the left has the reputation of "caring
about the down trodden, poor, and weak", and sometimes with the right,
because they are right, "believe in everything good, and wholesome,
America, apple pie, and right." At least that is the current right-wing
Christian understanding, which is currently making the most noise!

Truthfully, frtwz, I don't think their ideas have a whole lot more
depth than that, and their attempt at "loving, charitable, peaceful,
and forgiving" attitude is not much better grounded in the faith they
say they profess. I have talked to many, who have no idea about what
they believe, about being a Christian, the Faith they say they profess,
and certainly not about politics.

Now I was before, and I am now trying to be brutally honest in order to
stop you from making a false assumption based on what you think
Christians believe and how they act. Then having made that false
assumption, trying to make a conclusion about what our attitude, and JC
attitude would be regarding Capital Punishment.

I was not trying to be petty or evasive, but felt that we had to get to
these points.

It really does not matter what I, or anyone else think, what JC would
do. At best it would be an unsubstatiated assumption, that we can only
say what He did in the past, though under different situation. And at
best, so much different than what we expected, that we can not compute
the odds.

It really does not matter what Christians do, or don't do, because they
are like radical ions, with an unpredictable path at best, and a pretty
bad predictable path at worst, and certainly not reliable consistent
history to base anything on, especially politics.

Despite your attempt, to be nice and recognize my understanding of God,
and to be Politically Correct, to include JC in the equation, you
really don't care about all that, nor have the inclination to want to
really get into in, except for how it may support your position. Any
proof, of any assumptions, would be way beyond your expertise or
interest.


So, clearly Tink, there's a case of cognitive dissonance. I've had to
change my view of JC.

Of course, you're free to continue the "JC goes to Washington"
exercise
with fellow right-wngers. It's sure to help you find even greater
congruence between mean-spirited policies and the teachings of your
faith.

Thanks for the enlightenment, Tink.

Cheers,
frtzw906

Which brings me back to your point that there are some bad things going
on with capital punishment, and especially as it is practice in the US.
Is that a fair starting point? Personally I would rather not continue
with anyone else if I can entice you back into an interesting
discussion, less the WWJD angle. We have worked to hard to get to this
point!

And please spare yourself the grief by making assumptions about me and
what I believe, and where I would come out on any particula subject,
for as I think you begin to understand, you do not have the data to
make any such assumption or conclusion.

I would also like to encourage you also if possible, that not all
Christians are mean-spirited and nasty SOBs that are looking for
someone to pull the switch on. But then that is just one of my
assumptions. We have yet to examine either of our assumtions on that
score, so I don't know that you need to make any particular conclusions
about what you have seen so far, about me, about other Christians, and
certainly about JC!

Respectfully, TnT