If it is the Steve Hall I know then I have to say that all the comments
made here are out of order since we do not know the FACTS we only have
reportage, and if the Steve Hall is a different one then the comments
are still out of order as far as I am concerned the defendant is
innocent till proven guilty.

I also think you are ALWAYS going to have accidents and deaths if you do
"adventure sports". - see my previous post

n message , Franklin
writes

-the guide was experienced, had 25 years professional guiding experience
and
the experience of running his own company with dozens of trips per year
for
this same school. That's much more than most trip leaders have in any
given
situation.

But... how does *past* experience guarantee that no mistakes were made on
*this* trip? I can't agree that you build up some sort of positive karma
by
successfully leading previous trips. Did he do a good job over the last
25
years? Probably, and kudos to him. But that doesn't mean he didn't mess
up
on *this* trip.


I wanted to clarify this, because upon reflection I don't think I made my
point very well. What I'm really trying to say is that although I truly
believe that he has extensive experience leading trips as you note, that
only convinces me that he's been successfully leading trips for 25 years
previous to this incident; it doesn't convince me that he lead *this*
particular trip very well.

You also asked me what I would have done differently. I am primarily a
whitewater boater these days, and most of the trips I lead are on whitewater
rivers rather than streams. I do a fair amount of sea kayaking as well,
usually up on Lake Superior, but do not typically lead. I take inexperience
very seriously; I would never put a beginning whitewater paddler on class IV
whitewater, and I would never put a beginning sea kayaker in exposed
conditions such as these. I would also not allow canoes to be used in
exposed conditions, as the article indicates was done. God knows that
putting a open canoe on Lake Superior is just asking for trouble.

Wolfgang mockingly suggested that perhaps I would have preferred that they
do their kayaking on dry land. While I realize he was just being stupid in
an attempt to goad me, it's not too far from the truth. For several years I
was an ACA certified whitewater boating instructor. I never put a newbie
boater into a kayak, with a sprayskirt on, out on the water. The very first
thing I would do would be get them into a boat on dry land, show them the
outfitting, let them get the feel of the cockpit, etc. Once I thought they
were confortable with the boat and outfitting, I'd let them get on the water
in a pool or a designated swimming area (or some other similar, appropriate
area) *without* a skirt on, in which case the very first thing I would do
would be to make them do wet exits until they thought I was being
ridiculous. When I decided they were ready to paddle with a skirt on, I
would put them on dry land and make them remove their sprayskirts ad nauseum
until I was convinced they had it figured out automatically, then I'd put
them back on fla****er again and make them do wet exits with an attached
skirt until once again they thought I was being ridiculous. After I'd
taught them the basics of fla****er paddling, I would then take them on
class I/II whitewater with some experienced boaters to help them get the
hang of paddling on moving water. My point is that you can never be too
cautious with newbies.

I also want to make sure that you understand that I have a great deal of
respect in general for your opinion on this, although I don't necessarily
agree with some of your points. I mention this because your friend Wolfgang
seems to think that disagreeing with another person's opinions means that
the discussion must automatically devolve into a ****-slinging festival, and
I find that unfortunate.



--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk