"KMAN" wrote in message
...

"rick" wrote in message
ink.net...

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"BCITORGB" wrote in message
oups.com...
Tink says:
==============
FOCUS! He only said that some have died while waiting for a
Medical
Test or Procedure.
==============

Tink, thanks for what you've done here; you've provided a
conciliatory
tone. Look, I don't know KMAN, but from his posts, I can
well imagine
where he was coming from (insofar as I felt the same way but
was
disinclined to carry on a discussion with one as one-tracked
as rick).
Over here, in the Great White North, inundated as we are
with American
media, we constantly hear the ignorant bleatings of the
American
right-wing. And this nonsense about people "dying while on a
waiting
list" is one of those bits of nonsense.

So let's step back a bit. Do people die on waiting lists? Of
course
they do. We're talking about illnesses and medicine. How
could people
NOT die on waiting lists. And that applies to waiting lists
in Canada,
Sweden, Germany, and the United States. People die on
waiting lists
PERIOD. OK, we've gotten that out of the way.

I'll not speak for KMAN, but from where I'm looking at the
discussion,
I suspect KMAN is smart enough to realise this as well. I
react (I
suppose KMAN does) to the nonsense we hear from south of the
49th -- it
is exactly as the one article you recommended says;
exceedingly long
waiting lists are very rare and talk about them is just
media hype.

For us (and for citizens of all nations) the public debate
about
medicine is part economic, part ethical, and part
philosophical. As you
pointed out, after doing extensive reading about our system,
you've
learned that our system is quite good at early intervention
(nobody has
to ask whether or not they can afford it), it is good at
providing for
the poor and the indigent. And, as you so eloquently put it,
good at
raising the general level of health care in the populace. On
principle,
we believe that need, not money, should determine where you
are in the
waiting list.

As with most systems, there is an economic component.
Emphasis on one
element of healthcare generally means that another aspect
gets fewer
resources. So, given the emphasis and benefits listed above,
there are
likely to be waiting lists in some other parts of the
system. The
question that we, as a society, have to answer is, "Are we
willing to
tolerate a 3 month waiting time for joint replacement
surgery if it
means that we'll have generally higher health standards or
greater
accessability for the entire populace?" We've answered
"Yes". Americans
continue to answer "No".

To sum up: I think KMAN's responses are less "jingoistic
chest
thumping" as rick likes to call it, and more frustrated
responses to
right-wing nonsense fed by a media machine.

Tink, I hope you brought this ping-ponging to and end.
Thanks.

frtzw906

What would make things easier in the future is if I could
send you my posts and you could edit them for me before
posting!

You've captured it perfectly. I got so frustrated with rick's
spew that I tried to pin him down and make him focus more on
his wild claims about Canadian health care, and all that
happened instead is he took the dishonest tactic of picking
on the wording of my attempts to make him focus.
=====================
No, there was no misleading by me of your lies, er wording,
liarman. You made direct declarative statements that you
cannot back up. I focused entirely on your lies that no 1)
no one is waiting for treatment in Canada,

Scumbag. You know very well what I declared was that the people
in Newfoundland were not waiting for 2 1/2 years for
treatment - the lie YOU were telling. But you are too big of a
coward to admit it.
======================
Nope. that's not what you said then, liarman. You can explain
it now all you want, but your are still a liar, liarman.


I didn't lie, liarman. People are on long waiting lists in
Canada, and some of those people die while waiting for that
treatment. Sites have been presented to you that prove this, yet
you insist on your chest-thumping lies. Why is that liarman?
Haven't quite gotten your refutaions together yet?