"BCITORGB" wrote in message
ups.com...
Tink, I'm fairly sure you didn't read this one:
http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf


Yet you bypass the whole gist of the article, there are wait
times across Canada. Otherwise, why the hand wringing over it?
Besides, it was written for a(gasp) american Foundation...

here, I give you another from utoronto
"...An Ontario study reviewed the experience for 8,517
consecutive
coronary bypass patients following the establishment of a
provincial patient registry in 1991. While in the queue 31
patients (0.4%) died and 3 had surgery deferred after non-fatal
myocardial infarction (88)..."

"...Waiting lists are a source of frustration to physicians who
feel themselves
deprived of the ability to deliver clinical care in an optimal
fashion (95), a
situation which may also raise issues of medico-legal liability
(30). Moreover, physicians are uncomfortable with the ethically
ambivalent role into which, as a profession, they have
unwittingly been cast. On the one handm they are required to act
as the patient’s advocate, while on the other, they are expected
to ration scarce health resources on behalf of a constrained
system..."

So, despite the american paper above that says doctors are
indendent, that conclusion isn't entirely supported by reality as
the resources they must use are not under their control.

http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Shortt.pdf



"...There were 141 deaths (0.48%) among 29,293 patients.
Adjusting for age, sex, and waiting time, patients waiting for
valve surgery had a significantly increased risk of death
compared with patients waiting for CABG alone..."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=9616340



"...Based on data from tens of thousands of patients, it is now
clear that queuing
according to this system limits the risk of death for patients
awaiting surgery.
Currently about one in 200 to 250 patients will die while
awaiting isolated
coronary artery bypass surgery (CABG) in Ontario..."
http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/atrevised3.pdf


kman also claimed that no one in Canada waits for treatment, yet
another lie
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...anbacklog.html








I quote: "In short, patients get on wait lists in Canada
through a
poorly understood, haphazard, unaudited, entirely private
process
largely controlled by individual physicians."

The authors tell us that the notion of a waiting list and the
notions
of waiting and waiting times are hard to define. For example,
when
"exactly" does a patient (and, in this case, I don't care if
it's in
Canada, the USA, the UK, or whereever) get "on" a waiting list?
Tink,
when you call your family doctor, and the receptionist informs
you that
you can come in on Thursday, you're on a waiting list (if this
is a day
other than Thursday).

But what is particularly interesting in the statement in
question is
the part about it being an "entirely private process largely
controlled by individual physicians." So, no big bad
government
determining who gets to wait. It is the physician, using
his/her best
knowledge, who determines the nature of our wait. I think this
is
exactly what KMAN, Michael, and I have been trying to say.
Doctors in
Canada operate privately.

Tink, your source goes on to say: "Wait times tend to be, in
statistical jargon, highly skewed. This means that very long
waits are
the exception. A few long waits can have the same misleading
effect on
wait time statistics as a few palatial mansions on average
housing
prices." NOTE: "very long waits are the exception"

To complete that thought, the authors say: "But in the world of
selling
papers and tv advertising spots, the exception often makes the
story.
This gets an unassuming public understandably concerned,
playing nicely
into the hands of those seeking to get more money into the
system."

Is that not EXACTLY what KMAN has been saying? This is hype!

NOW READ THIS CAREFULLY (IT TAKES THE CANADIAN PULSE): "Some
recent
Canadian research has found that not all patients are unhappy
about
waiting. Very
few patients who felt waits were "too long" wanted to see
additional public funds used to reduce wait times (although
this may be
related to the procedures they were waiting for and may also
now be
changing, as Canadians seem increasingly concerned about access
to
care). Fewer still seemed interested in shelling out extra
money
personally to reduce their wait time."

NOTE CAREFULLY: "Fewer still seemed interested in shelling out
extra
money personally to reduce their wait time." That's us, cheap
Canadians
(just ask the folks in Florida)!

Anyway, Tink, thanks for the link. It goes on, and on, and on,
supporting KMAN's points.
=====================
No, it does not.


frtzw906