You're too stupid to leave well enough alone. Pretty soon you're
going to add the kitchen sink to the list.
Just stop adding things to the list that don't belong there. That's
all I ask.
The more things you add the more confusion you cause.
Overtaking and Overtaken don't belong on the pecking order
list because Overtaken and Overtaking are not classes of
vessels described by their ability to maneuver. WIG
is a class so it does belong in the pecking order list. I
suppose it goes right above seaplane.
CN
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
Wah wah wah! Poor Baby Neal is having a tantrum because someone used a different paradigm from his!
Different vessels get on the list in different ways. Sailboats and WIGs are built as one type, but become powerboats when used in
that mode. Ships can become fishing vessels or RAMs because of gear they deploy. And not too many are built as NUCs, although
any can end up in that class. Overtaking is simply a class is is created by virtue of the course and speed of a vessel.
This was not my mnemonic, it is simply the one I was taught. Frankly, I would have preferred to put "Overtaken" at the other end
of the list, because even a NUC is required to stay clear of a vessel it overtakes. If anything, CBD is the class that doesn't
belong, because it never becomes "stand-on" as defined by Rule 17. The pecking order is a list of conditions that create
stand-on/give-way relationships, and overtaking should be on that list.
But this is simply a list to help people remember the rules. Why should any such list bother Neal?
But there is a reason! Neal is trying to divert attention from his own explanation of the pecking order, which is filled with
blunders. For instance, he claims RAMs must give way to NUCs. He says that a fishing vessel trawling or pulling nets is a RAM, or
a vessel towing is a RAM. This last item is particularly egregious, because although a tow may declare itself a RAM, it generally
is the same as a powerboat on the pecking order.
Neal goes on to similarly butcher the Narrow Channel rules, but that's another story. Actually, my biggest complaint are the
topics never mentioned, such as the requirement to avoid collisions, or the need for a lookout.
So its pretty clear why Neal is so obsessed about a non-issue; he's just embarrassed about his own ignorance.
Capt. NealŪ wrote:
You got it wrong AGAIN! Are you incapable of learning?
I told you plenty of times that your unilaterally adding 'overtaking'
to the bottom of the list is ludicrous.
Overtaking does not belong there, is not needed there, in incorrect
to place there and makes no sense there.
The pecking order lists classes of vessels. That's all it lists.
Any vessel can potentially overtake another. Overtaking is not
a class of vessels. Overtaking is an action of vessels.
STOP ADDING YOU OWN CRAP AND STOP CONFUSING THE
ISSUE WITH YOUR BULL****.
I've had it to here with amateurs like you attempting to re-write
the rules.
CN
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
Bart Senior wrote:
List the precidence level for all possible types of precidence. 1 pt
Since don't seem to have any takers, here's my version:
The "Pecking Order" is often taught with a mnemonic device. The one I learned was: "New Reels Catch Fish So Purchase Some
Often." This stands for
NUC - Not Under Command
RAM - Restricted Ability to Maneuver
CBD - Constrained By Draft
Fishing
Sail
Power
Seaplanes
Overtaking
Vessels lower on the list should give way to vessels higher.
Although this is the way it is taught, it is not quite accurate, nor is it this simple. So here's points to keep in mind:
First of all, my "pet peeve" is that there is nothing in the rules that puts NUCs above RAMs. They are considered equal in the
rules. Some will say the a NUC is more disabled than a RAM, but that isn't necessarily true. Consider that a RAM could be a
cable layer that must follow a specific course, or even a dredge that can't move, while a NUC might simple have a steering
difficulty that limits maneuverability somewhat. So what happens when a NUC meets a RAM? They have to figure it out, they same
way two RAMs would have to.
Next, the category of CBD simply does not exist in the US Inland Rules. Why? I wouldn't want to second guess, but much of the
US Inland ship traffic is on the Western Rivers, which has it own rules, based on long tradition. Also, most of the remaining
Inland waters is covered by Rule 9 (Narrow Channels) so in practice, little is changed.
The meaning of a "fishing boat" is sometimes confused. Rule 3 makes it clear that this means having nets or gear deployed that
restricts maneuverability, but does not mean simply having a trolling line deployed. In other words, a recreational fisher is
generally not a "vessel engaged in fishing." Similarly, a commercial boat without gear deployed is simply a powerboat, but good
luck explaining that to a lobster boat headed for his next pot.
And drift fishermen should understand that they are still "underway." Even if their engine is off, this cannot be determined
other vessels, so they are still required to stay clear of sailboats, etc.
It is worth noting that a recent change has added "Wing In Ground" vessels. These are essentially very low flying airplanes,
that skim over the surface. They fall between Seaplanes and Overtaking in the pecking order.
Another aspect worth considering is the meaning of "give way." For several of the pecking order relationships, one vessel most
"keep out of the way" of the other, and Rule 16 is quite explicit that this means: "take early and substantial action to keep
well clear." This means that the other vessel should be able to determine that you are keeping clear, and should not even be
tempted to alter course.
However, the CBD Rule is worded differently. It says other vessels (not NUCS and RAMs) "shall avoid impeding" the passage of a
CBD. The same wording is used in Rules 9 and 10, concerning narrow channels and TSS's. This is explained in Rule 8, and it
means that you must allow the other vessel the room to safely get around you. Of course, in practice, if the CBD vessel is a
500 foot tanker, this could be taken as meaning the same thing as "stay well clear," but its obvious that this is different from
the stand-on/give-way relationship of other rules. In other words, a sailboat beating out a channel is still the stand-on
vessel with respect to a power boat coming in, however the sailboat must give the powerboat a clear path to get around.
While I'm on the point of "shall not impede," some people have taken the Narrow Channel Rule 8(b) ("A vessel of less than 20
meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow
channel or fairway.") as meaning that powerboats have right of way over sailboats in a channel. This is simply not true. If
the powerboat is under 20 meters, it falls under the same restriction as the sailboat.
One more thing: I was taught the rowboats have right of way over all other boats. While this is true in some inland lakes not
covered by the Colregs or Inland rules, there is almost no mention of human powered, or vessels under oars in the Colregs. Any
"rights" rowboats have come from the basic rules which apply to all vessels, and especially Rule 2.
That's it for now.
|