in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 4:36 PM:


KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 2:39 PM:


KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 4:44 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article
,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 3:26 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article
,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/26/05 6:58 PM:


BCITORGB wrote:
In case Scott doesn't like the NZ stats, here are some from
Australia...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502tabs.xls

Homicides per 100,000 population - average per year 1998 to
2000

USA 5.87
New Zealand 2.28
Sweden 2.06
Australia 1.87
Canada 1.79
England & Wales 1.50
Netherlands 1.40
Germany 1.19
Denmark 1.00


So, for me, these statistics beg the question: WHY? Why is
the
muder
rate so much higher in the USA? Are there extenuating
factors?

Hmmm.....

[in the case of Canada we know, of course, that hundreds of
people
are
murdered every year by the state -- waiting in medical
treatment
lines
GRIN]

frtzw906

So frtwz, are you acknowledging on KMANs behalf that rick is
correct in
what he has been claiming? Now can we all move on? GRIN TnT

Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high
moral
stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward.
Why
is
that?

I learned in my bar fighting days, that if it's not my fight,
there
is
nothing gained by getting my nose broke! You and rick look to
be
having
a good dance, so I don't see no cause to cut in! TnT

You cut in all the time! Why be such a priss on this issue?

FYI, it's not just with me that rick is a liar and a coward. His
behavior is
rather universal on that note.

On Feb 13, at 6:21 I warned frtwz about engaging in a dialog with
rick,
and I have continued to do so on a number of ocassions. At that
time I
caught a little heat from r myself. But you have been around for
awhile, and I have observed this phenomenon between the two of
you
before. So you should know better!

Besides, on a lot of points, I probably would not necessarily
disagree
with the guy, I just try to be a little more civil in my
conversation.
Now he has been around for a lot longer than I so maybe he has
learned
something that I have yet to learn. However in the meantime I
will
just
watch and learn, he's a great teacher.

Of what?

More of how! How not to communicate, you don't get your message
through
very well with all this spitball shooting.

Do you think rick is interested in any messages?

He's not even interested in supporting any of his own statements.

I don't know, he has a nice website with nice stories and pictures, I
suppose there is a message there. I don't know him personally, so I
don't know what his credentials are for the current topic. I believe he
lives up there in your neck of the woods somewhere on this side of the
border. So he may have some personal experience or ax to grind. As I
said before, last post, I have not bothered to find the contentious
post by either of you, and have tried to ignore this particular part of
the thread. Not my responsibility to certify the post of anyone but
myself.



As far as cutting in all the time, I only cut in when I choose to
cut
in, and sometimes I choose to not cut in, specially when I stand
to
get
my toes stepped on. The music you guys have been dancing to is
really
bad, and your moves are pretty ugly, but if yu are enjoying it,
carry
on. Don't let me interfere! TnT

How so?

Well I am not the one getting hit by the spitballs!

And if you were, you probably wouldn't know!

No I usually know, and I have sensed some zinging around, but I've
learned to duck most of the time.

Rick is claiming that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for
health
care,
but he refuses to support his claim, and worse, says that he has
done
so,
when everyone can see that he hasn't.

That makes him a liar and a coward Tinkerntom, and so to (cowards)
are all
those who cower in the closet, afraid that their "toes will get
stepped on."

I've had my nose broke a enough times to show that I am no coward

That sounds a bit more like foolish than brave :-D

It was not probably the smartest, but hey you don't get paid for being
smart!


and
I am certainly not cowering in my closet. I am here in the forum
ready
to discuss in a reasonable fashion what so ever I feel inclined to
discuss.

I basically don't know that much about the Canadian Medical System

Neither does rick.

So you say!

and
whether people are dying waiting in line, I have no personal
knowledge
to make any comments. I have been watching this converstion with
rick
to see if any substantial info would surface, and have yet to see
anything that I can really ruminate on from either side.

Well Tinkerntom, it's very simple. Rick has made the claim, and he
has
failed to support it. Do you agree?

I agree, that you claim, that he made the claim, and failed to support
it. No mystery here after watching this squabble for the last week!

And yet the
bottom line as I see it, is that it is your system, and if it works
for
you, that is your business. It would only become my business if
someone
tried to enforce the system or some variation here in the States,
which
Hillary tried, and at the time, the majority of the people decided
that
we preferred the existing system we already have.

But do you agree that rick has made a claim that he has failed to
support?

Ask, and answered!

The topic at hand is really quite irrlevant to the question.

Maybe, possibly, probably!

Now as far as r being a liar and a coward, I don't know. I came
back
refreshed from vacation to find you two carrying on. I don't know
when
or where it started, and mostly have tried to ignore your spat. I
have
not seen any point in getting involved, or of even going back and
trying to find the supposed and questioned post by either one of
you. I
have enough trouble keeping my post square as you well know from
our
previous experiences. I have been told back in the beginning by my
good
friends Wilko and riverman, not to say anything on the forum, that
you
would say to someone face to face. Now seeing that he is a gun nut
(your definition) and possibly walks around with his "Assault
weapon"
armed and ready, it might not be wise to walk up to him and call
him a
"liar and a coward." So then I find it most profitable to refraim
from
doing so here on the net as well.

But do you agree that rick has made a claim that he has failed to
support?

Ask, and answered!

C'mon Tinkerntom, what type of society are we to build here in
rec.boats.paddle if we are not to support the basic building
blocks
of
logical discussion? Shame on you!

Now if you wanted to continue a new thread about the advantages of
the
Canadian Health Care system, sometime in the future, maybe there
could
be a logical discussion, but I doubt that could happen at this time
in
this thread. There appears to be to much macho image at risk
between
the two of you. I will look forward to that discussion, and I hope
that
I am back on your list of reasonable non cowards! TnT

This is about basic integrity Tinkerntom. The topic is really a
subordinate
issue. It is no different than if rick were to claim that purple
kayaks
result in increased death rates.

But purple kayaks would be fun to paddle. I almost bought a purple
Perception Overflow, but ended up with a yellow one instead. I do have
a purple paddle shirt that look pretty nice with the yellow kayaK. And
Paddling is what this forum is about, and anything else is OT and
subject to no particular rules of dialog. If you don't like the dialog
or question the integrity of the debatee, you can always withdraw when
you are no longer having fun, or get scared, or freaked out, or have a
headache.

I don't personally want to see you leave, since I enjoy are chats so
much, but you can always just ignore r if he bothers you that much.

Nah, you can't let the liars and degenerates take over just because they
"bother" you. Besides which, being challenged by someone with no integrity
is really not a challenge at all.