Wilko: thank you very much for your insight into what happened in
holland. horrible as it was, i audibly laughed when i read "People like
Theo van Gogh, who used openly hostile remarks towards muslims, like
calling them
"goat-****ers" ". while there is, of course, nothing to laugh at in the
statement i found myself thinking -- and i mean no offense to you --
that the dutch language does not lend itself well to subtlety and
nuance. dutch must be the most direct, honest language around.

like you say "which IMHO is more disturbing than the so called
anti-islamic violence rising, is that the openness of our society has
changed." this, too, is the impression i got. however, reports of these
things in the media tend to concentrate on the sensational rather than
the background.

You say: "Denmark is actually rather intolerant, with a considerable
list of
minority unfriendly and minority intolerant laws and regulations."

This reminds me of a visit we had in the late 80's from a danish
acquaintance. she was by every measure, the poster child/women for the
euro-left. she was a card-carrying member of the danish socialist
party. she went to every rally and march imaginable: peace, anti-nuke,
feminist... you name it. she was active in the teachers' union. she had
not a racist bone in her body (she was married to a greenland inuit).
yet, when we talked about the future of denmark, she expressed only
one concern: radical islam! she was not concerned about the fact that
they were either arabs or persians. even though she was an atheist, she
did not mind the islamic faith in moderation. but what she saw, and
what she abhorred was the growing militancy of the radical muslim
refugees/immigrants. i have lost touch with her, but it wouldn't
surprise me if, in spite of her tolerant tendencies, she would join
such a "right-wing" movement. she foresaw everything the socialists and
feminists had worked for being threatened. for her, that was not
negotiable.

wilko says:
===========
Because muslims are tolerated and left to do what they as long as they
bother no-one, we expect them to respect others and not try to force
their beliefs onto others as well. Alas, a few of them fail to
understand that.
===========

alas, i fear that is the problem with radical fundamentalists: they
don't know when they've pushed far enough. they fail to understand that
tolerance has it's limits. they fail to see that the line in the sand
is the very tolerance that gives them their liberty. by all mean, "do
your own thing", but don't think you can define what "my thing" is!

again, thanks for your insight.

frtzw906,