Larry C wrote:
Bill Tuthill wrote:


Environmentalism is an updated form of native american religion, I
suspect.
It's amazing how much influence native americans have had over our
culture,
especially considering how we mercilessly wiped them out. For
example,
the Iroquois Confederacy served as a model for US government.

I'm not sure that I buy the arguement that the Native Americans were
all that environmentally conscious. For example, the Iroquois
Confederation was formed to expand the tribes territory for the Fur
Trade and as a response to the encroachment of the Northern Tribes
supported by the French. They needed more territory because they had
decimated the furbearing populations in their original tribal areas.
Hardly a conservation ethic.

If one considers earlier Native cultures, there seem to have been
several that suffered from environmental collapses, maybe due to
climate change. The Adena in the East and the Cliff Dwellers in the
west for an example.

Read an Archeology article recently regarding the Yucatan. Seems that
the Mayan denuded large areas of the Yucatan forest, because of their
high demand for firewood, to reduce limestone for plaster for the
temples. They would live and build in an area until the forest could no
longer support the temple building and the agriculture, and then move
on.

Having spent time there in the early '70, the process continues. The
indigenous people practice slash and burn, live in an area for 5 to 10
years and then have to move on because they are having to carry their
firewood so far, 30-50 miles per day, in order to find good fire wood,
and the ag-land is played out.

The Spanish tried to stabilize the situation, several hundred years
ago, by requiring the people to have a home town of origin. So now the
people typically maintain two homes, one it town, where they go to be
counted and to pay taxes, and one in the jungle where they actually
live.

The Mexican Dept of Interior, is trying to save the forest, but you can
go for miles without seeing a large tree. High fines placed for cutting
one down, and are trying to reforest large area, but will take years of
effort.

All this has absolutely nothing to do with the large oil companies,
mining, or other enviro-hazard based big biz, just folks trying to have
a fire to cook their beans and stay warm.

Here on the High Plains, prior to conquistador and white settlers
bringing horses, the indians hunted buffaloe by driving a herd over a
cliff. They would kill many more than they could process, and without
refrigeration, there was lots of waste of game meat. Similarly they
hunted deer and elk. The game herds are larger now than ever with game
management, except for the buffaloe herds, which were a health issue
for domestic animals.

I am sure the Savannah of Africa is amazing to see with all its game
animals, but it will not support the developement required for advanced
civilization. Even current developement of agricultural areas is
conflicting with large animals such as rino and elephant, etc. Should
we just tell the locals that they really don't need to eat! Again
nothing to do with the big boys like Haliburton and the evil empire.

I suspect that some of these companies would love to develope ANWR, and
maybe Watts would have allowed it, and now Bush and Norton contemplates
it. I also suspect that if they go up there, though they will probably
not be able to leave no trace, they will be required to leave as small
a footprint as possible. The cost of a highly advanced industrial
civilization.

If there is an alternative, I would love to hear it, and see it in
"black and white," not just platitudes and pie in the sky, and talk
about the noble savage. It is easy to whine, show me a plan that works,
and I would be more than glad to promote it to all my fundementalist
friends in high places.

This all reminds me of a story I heard awhile back.

A farmer is out in his field working, and notices some fellow leaning
over his fence taking pictures. He approches the man and asks if he can
help him. The man politely and with awe in his voice said, "What a
beautiful field, that God had made!". The farmer without missing a
beat, said "Well, I don't know about God, you should have seen it when
He had it all to Himself."

Yes we have stewardship, and sometimes we have to get out some big
stones. TnT