Hey Jim,

I agree with you on one thing. Those little displays with three wheels and
and ounce of oil sitting on the parts counter are useful for just one thing
.. . . a toy to play with while you are waiting for them to find the part you
want.

I have seen the results of some of the tests that show how synthetic oil
"clings" to mechanical parts better than conventional oil. It was part of
the data that convinced me to start using it. In addition to this,
synthetic oil flows more freely at low temperatures. For this reason, even
with out the increased molecular bonding, synthetic oil will start
circulating and lubricating faster that conventional oil will on a cold
morning when the temp is 15 degrees.


"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
Frank,
Yes, I am aware of the wear that takes place during start up. However, I
know
of no evidence that synthetic oil possesses adhesive properties that
reduce wear
during this time. For years, additive manufacturers have been displaying
plastic gear arrangements in a clear box. The hand crank is turned and
the oil
with their additive ribbons around the gears while the oil without drips
off.
Although impressive, it does not indicate what is happening at the gear
mesh.
In both cases, there is full film lubrication at the mesh and the additive
provides no additional benefit. As I mentioned in my response to Gene,
Crusader
Marine came to the conclusion that there was no benefit to using
synthetics in
their engines under normal operating conditions. Obviously, if they felt
that
there was any chance that warranty claims might be reduced with the use of
synthetics, they would certainly recommend, if not require, their use.

On the other hand, there are industrial applications where synthetic oils
and
greases have proven to be far superior to their conventional counterparts.

"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

Jim,

You sound like you are well versed in the matters of internal combustion
engine lubrication. You are correct that oil contamination is a major
factor in oil breakdown and that is why oil should be changed regularly.
Although many synthetic oil users believe in extended periods between
oil
changes, that is one thing that I do not buy into mainly because of the
issues that you mentioned. In addition to contamination, heat and
mechanical forces are also causes of oil breakdown.

The fact is, that no matter whant kind of oil you use, as soon as you
put it
in and start the engine, the breakdown process starts and conventional
oil
will break down faster than synthetic. Even after only 1,000 miles,
conventional oils will have lost much more of their protective
properties
than synthetic oils.

I suspect that you are also aware of the fact that for the typical
automotive engine, a large amount of wear occurs during engine startup
when
all of the oil is still in the pan. Because of the molecular properties
of
synthetic oil, it adheres to engine components much better than
conventional
oil thus providing more protection at startup.

"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
I think you are getting your balls in a bunch. You are confusing
extreme
pressure properties of certain types of lubricants with the ability of
both
synthetic and conventional oils to operate satisfactorily in the
typical
boundary layer lubrication environment of an internal combustion
engine.
You
need to read up on tribology and the mechanics of an oil film in plain
bearing
applications as well as sliding motion applications. The most
detrimental
aspect of lubrication in an internal combustion engine is
contamination
from the
combustion process. Unlike a gear box application, the oil in an
engine
is
subject to the byproducts of the combustion process as well as unburnt
fuel.
For this reason, changing the oil and filter on a regular basis is
much
more
important than the type of oil used.



"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

Well, I'm not sure what that quart of "Volvo Duraplus Synthetic Oil"
is
that
is sitting right in front of me as I write this message is but it
sure
looks
like synthetic oil to me. I suppose that it could be manufactured
by
some
other company and Volvo just puts their name on it.

You are correct, that the temperature characteristics of synthetic
oil
are a
big advantage of synthetics but it goes much further than that. The
molecular structure of synthetic oil is also much more consistent
than
that
of conventional oil. Consider this analogy:

Lets say you have a bunch of steel balls of all different sizes and
you
thrown them down on a concrete floor and then throw a board on top
of
them
and step on it. As you surf across the steel balls on top of the
board,
you
are really only ridinng on the large balls. The surfaces on these
few
balls
will soon wear down and the ride becomes rough. This is how
conventional
oils works.

Now you do the same thing with another bunch of balls that are all
the
same
exact size. Since they are all the same size, the board rides
evenly
across
all of the balls at the same time. Since all of the balls are
supporting
the board, they do not wear down nearly as quickly and the ride
starts
smoother and stays smoother for much loinger. That is what
synthetic
oil
does.

Yes, synthetic oil is more expensive but it's cheaper than a new
eingine.

Frank

"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
Volvo does not make any oil, synthetic or conventional.
Statements
like
"synthetic is definitely much better" are meaningless. Synthetic
lubricants
have properties which make them a better choice for certain
applications.
If
the application does not take advantage of these properties, there
is
nothing
to be gained by using them. One of their greatest attributes is
a
more
linear temperature vs. viscosity curve. There is a misconception
that
synthetics are simply higher quality. This is not the case.

"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

30 wt refers to the viscosity charactersitics of the oil. It
can
still
be
either conventional or synthetic. As a matter of fact, Volvo
makes
a
straight 30 wt synthetic oil for its marine engines.

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On 16 Dec 2003 17:09:51 -0800, (Bear)
wrote:

(Bear) revised earlier message
.com...

'97 Chapparal w/ a Volvo-Penta 5.7L Carb w/ SX Outdrive

Questions:

1) Volvo pushes synthetics for crankcase and outdrive, yet
all
the
boat places around me (Austin - San Antonio) said to use
regular
20w-50 motor oil in crankcase and non-suynthetic in
outdrive...
Of course they said to change every 100 hours or per
season.
Experience / Opinions?

2) Any thoughts / experience on spark plugs for this
motor???

Thanks!

Hmmm, the people I talk to in Ohio say to use straight 30 wt
in
my
1989
5.7.