"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Jim Donohue wrote:
Sorry Roger...but the guy is not teaching all methods...he is teaching
some version of DR and coastal. He is deliberately not teaching GPS and
Loran. So he is busily training a 1975 sailor.

Sailors in 1975 were much better navigators than today.

OK...There is a bold and clear statement. Lets see your reference. Let's
see a study that indicates the ability of sailors to navigate has gotten
worse than it was in 1975. You have apparently sailed at least a few times
Jeff...why would you make such a singularly stupid assertion.



I would strongly hold for teaching all useful methods...but the important
ones first. In fact the first skill is the ability to read and interpret
a chart...which is I think the skill that is often missing in beginning
sailors. Then GPS. I would certainly teach DR and coastal...but as a
secondary to GPS.

That makes as much sense as teaching 4th graders how to use a calculator
assuming they will figure out long division later. If someone was
insisting on receiving no more than an hour or so of instruction before
heading out, I might be tempted to show them a GPS, but if someone wants
to learn the basic methods they should learn them first.

Further, to fully appreciate a chart you must learn the basics of
piloting. You can explain variation and bearings, but they has no meaning
to beginners until the plot LOPs.

Heading and bearing are perfectly reasonable and understandable terms even
for the beginner. They are perfectly explainable in the context of a GPS
location. One need not plot LOPs when one knows the position. It would be
better to be positon centric. What we use to do was deal with the fact that
the fix was to a line and not a position. That is not a desirable
outcome...merely the result of technical limitations. Crossing to lines is
simply a way to get to the information that is directly avalable from the
GPS. Why would you want to determine position by crossing to lines when it
is available directly from an instrument?


Variation is simply compensation for instrument error that no longer
exists. Why would you feature it in your early instruction? As we cannot
yet get rid of the magnetic compass it is still neccessary to explain why
there are two heading systems. It should be handled for what it is...an
instrument error to be compensated when using the compass for heading.


How far do you plan to go on "teach all methods"? I can interpret and
use an old Loran with the delay numbers...but I would not teach it.
Celestial is the obvious issue. Would you teach celestial today to a
prospective cruiser? What level of celestial? The full set of star/moon
techniques? How about RDF?

These are silly comparisons. Basic DR and piloting techniques are used
all the time even in our GPS oriented world. Loran and celestial are not.
However, a few of the basics should be taught - I'm surprised at how many
people can't instantly find Polaris, or know the approximate bearing of
the rising or setting Sun or Moon.


Oh? So as long as it is on your hobby list it is basic and required?
Otherwise it is not? The discussion is to use all available methods. Why
would you not want Loran? A lot more accurate than DR or any piloting
techniques I know of. And you calculate drift angles all the time? What
for? You find it intellectually stimulating to calculate it rather than
have the GPS read it to you? My point is actually simple. The proper
primary instrument is the GPS which tells you where you are and which
direction you are heading. You guys are trying to assert it should be the
magnetic compass. You simply are backing a dead horse. It is over. Get
over it. Teach reality not your hobby views.



As an aside virtually all Pacific cruisers as of a year or so ago had a
sextant on board...but virtually none had shot a positon in the last
year.


Is there a point here? I'll bet that the majority of them knew the basics
of DR and piloting. Or are you claiming they don't bother because they
have faith in their GPS?

The point, which was listed as an aside...is that the real cruiser
population uses GPS effectively exclusively and their ability to revert to
celestial is probably not there. DR is a silly argument in this
context...it is simply a way to determine how lost you are...It is probably
less effective than following airplanes in most of the world.