On 11-Jan-2005, Rick wrote:

The poster did identify his location (near the great lakes - where I
assumed he'd be paddling), which is one where temps in winter can be
well below 0 for extended periods of time

I live north of him and paddle in cold temps. I own a dry suit and
have also used a wet suit in winter.

The dry top is a good block for the wind, but the wetsuit
itself is not. Most are useless in the wind, by the way, as air has no
difficulty penetratring the seams in the fabric.

That depends on how strong the wind is or how cheap your wet suit is.
Mine at least has sealed seams. We were out on New Year's Day and
there was no wind. I was the only one in a drysuit and everyone else
was quite comfortable.

Since the standard wet suit is a farmer john, a jacket of some kind is
mandatory in wind. Drytop or just a windbreaker, you can be comfortable.

Again, I disagree. Once wet, the suit will accumulate ice and its
thermal abilities would be compromised. Even with a 25F temperature,
without wind, you would find the water temperature to be quite
uncomfortable in a very short time. Sea kayaker did experiements in
water considerably warmer than this and the results were eye-opening.

If you are in the kayak and paddling, you're producing heat. If ice forms,
it will crack and fall off. Besides, a wet suit doesn't hold that much
water on its surface. The neoprene itself does not absorb water and
will not have its insulation compromised. Been there, done that.

I don't know about the Sea Kayaker tests (cite please) but I know I've
gone for a swim in winter and if you're up to it, it isn't that bad.
The big problems are related to controlling breathing - cold water
gasp reflex (sudden inhalation when you hit cold water) can get you,
especially if you are underwater when it happens. When floating,
you have a tendency to breathe in panic mode - control that and
you most of the way to controlling the whole situation.

Note also that these clubs have doctors and rescue equipment on
hand for emergencies.

Liability issues and the fact that out-of-shape bozos come out of the
woodwork to join in the fun. If you've got a heart condition, no,
you shouldn't be risking cold water immersion. If you're fit, that's
another story.

After a capsize, should you lack, or fail, a roll, you will be in the
water for a longer period of time than one of these swimmers.

I've been in water these temps for longer than a few seconds. Even in
a wet suit, it can take several seconds just for the water to penetrate
to your skin if you've got layers on.

Surviving water that is 32F-35F (the likely temps in the region) is not
undoable, but if someone asks me for a recommendation on whether to
paddle on such water and I have little evidence of their skill or
hardiness, I will not, as some here have, recommend going out.

You only said that they have to have a drysuit. A drysuit by itself
is not a solution. I know of folks who have gone out in a drysuit
with no insulation underneath and another that wore a drysuit and
left the zippers open (he drowned - on Superior - I believe it was
discussed here a few years ago).

I give Sparky the benefit of the doubt and assume he's not an idiot,
since he asked for advice. Telling him to be prepared is better
than telling him to stay home.

Mike