"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
katysails wrote:
Doug,
In order for your first point to succeed, you ahve to have your second
point in place for development of conscience.

I disagree.

I knew you would...


... When young children are being raised, it is necessary that there be
consequences for actions...good and bad.

Agreed. But that can be reduced to simple behaviorism... mechanistically
reinforcing children to act in ways that are "good."

And what is it that determines what is "good" vs what is "bad"? Behaviorism
can be used to direct any type of behavior pattern to the will of the
director if applied correctly...developing conscience adds the element of
appropriateness according to a set of moral or ethical values...


This is not the same thing as having (and following) a rational moral &
ethical code.

In order to follow a rational moral or ethical code one must be
directed...one must have a formed consciounce...fear of comnsequence is the
most advantageous way to learn that...


... Consequences can be equivocated to punishment at times if the
infraction is grave. Fear of negative consequence is a healthy thing.
It keeps us from becoming sociopathic.

The problem with this viewpoint is that it erases the difference between a
sociopath who is restrained by fear of punishment, and a person who has no
tendency towards sociopathy.

A sociopath restrained by fear is still restrained..which is a good
thing...a sociopath is typically amoral...there is only what is good or bad
for him...a person who is not sociopathic will sift through and determine
what is correct and what is incorrect behavior..fear is a great element in
that development...a child being told that he will be burned if he plays
with the stove usually won't stop playing with the stive until he is
burned...the fear of being burned again assists with his then making a
better choice in the future...

This sort of thinking is like those cops who believe that there's no such
thing as an honest citizen. Do you believe this is right & good?!? I find
it hard to believe that you do...

I believe that people learn to be bad or good and if not presented with the
right choices and the right consequences, that they will choose bad. In the
long run, it is far easier to be a bad person because the self-gratification
is so great. I do believe tha thteir are honest and good people, but that
they are honest and good because they have chosen to be that way.


DSK