Eric Currier wrote:

I've been reading both sides of this argument and I'd like to add my two
cents....(IE, not worth much).

The arguement seems to waver around the FACT (bold type because it is a
fact) that fish and other animals defecate in the water.

The arguement is that if most people consider water that is full [? -tk] of natural
feces to be "clean", then a little of their own will not harm anything.

The water ways and oceans have a considerable ability to clean themselves
and not only does the natural feces exist, it can benifit the enviroment by
adding to the food chain.

The word "clean" offends, here. In nature here is no such thing as
clean, but only a lick and a promise, part of a process.


The problem starts when the natural balances get out of balance.

As an example, put the recomended amount of fertilizer on your garden and
your flowers and vegetables should grow and produce better, but put 10 or
100 times of the recomended amount of fertilizer on your garden and your
yield is not 10 or 100 times better, instead the ground is "burned",
nothing will grow. The plants that needed the fertilizer and used the
fertilizer can no longer live on the over fertilized soil and it will be
many years before it will be possible to use that soil again.

Water flowing down from a mountain top is very clean, even though fish are
crapping in it (lots of water, few fish), later it goes through a pasture
with some cattle in it and it is less clean (still lots of water, but now
more crap), it then goes by the Coors plant (not trying to pick on them) and
now it is even less clean (water, crap, and some beer), the water is still
considered almost pure because there are very small percentages of crap and
beer. It then goes to a town and after being treated with clorine, flourine
and other chemicals it is used as fresh water, it then gets more crap added,
more chemicals, some treatment and is discharged back into the stream. Many
towns and cities later it reaches the Ocean, I doubt if there are very many
people in this group who would be willing to walk down to the river bank
close to where it reaches the Ocean and have several large glasses of river
water.

So now the water has reached the Ocean, it is a much higher level of crap,
chemicals and other polution in it than the water did 200 years ago did, and
what do we find on the edge of the Ocean? Some of our biggest cities,
producing even more polution, crap and chemicals.

So if you look at the Ocean as a garden you can see that the natural cycle
would let it clean itself and even a little additional polution can be
tolerated, the problem is when the amounts get too high.

Early in WWII German submarines ravaged the East coast, this was even more
critical when you realize that at the time almost all of the oil for the
east coast was transported by ship. for years after WWII you could go to
most any east coast beach and dig down a few feet and find oil. Over time
all this oil has been cleaned up...by the Ocean, but it takes time, a lot of
time.

Have you ever driven down a highway and been disgusted by all the trash that
you see along the way? All that trash was not caused by one person (usually)
but instead was the product of a bunch of people thinking "there is already
some trash out there, one more piece won't matter".

"No one raindrop blames itself for the flood"

I wrote this because I want people to realize that the big question is "are
you adding to the problem, or are you adding to the solution" or
"a turd in the right place is fertilizer, a turd in the wrong place is
polution".

Eric



Good on ya, Eric. You are on the right track. So, now what? Do we
exterminate all coastal cities, or only those inland?

We need a better attitude and method of treating huge concentrations
of human waste. Not just excretia, but tin lids, old TV's and
Gutenburg's revenge, red glossy cardboard, which won't even burn good.

To preserve landfill, crude oil, natural gas and recycling
requirements, all packaging should be useable as a clean fuel or
recycled or refilled.

We also need catalytic or limestone converters for carbon dioxide
for industrial purposes and eventual home use. Better heavy ash
than carbon dioxide? We need photo voltaic shingles for our roofs,
hydrogen storage bags in our attics or two wat power meters, we need
domestic hot water and heating water preheaters on our roofs to keep
the photovoltaic cells cool and save energy production requirements,
we need better insulation to keep our houses cool in the summer and
warm in the winter and lots more.

There is a lot of room for new industry. Only the oil guys have the
capital to do it independantly. We need to outbid them for control
of the next big power industry. Only a people's government can do
anything, but who controls that?

Human manure needs to be treated as a valuable resource, which it
is. What can we mine from it (cellulose?), or mill from it
(fertiliser?), or refine from it (silica? drinking water?), or cook
it into with say, agriculural waste product like straw or hemp
leaves? Can we convert it into, dare I suggest, crude oil? How can
we do it with minimum impact on the potable water supply and on the
fishy sea? Why do we waste it by throwing it away, poisoning the
shoreline and the boating environment? We will need an honest, non
profit approach to some things.

Maybe some day a photovoltaic array big enough to shade a
significant portion of deserts, with greenhouses in the shade using
sewage to grow corn to feed livestock and distill alcohol for fuel?
That is a serendipitous synergy that could work. Too many windmills
could cause desertification and mass butchery of birds, let alone
the noise pollution.

Why do we not have seperate sanitary and runoff drainage systems in
new housing areas, with boglike discharge areas to grow shellfish
and clean our discharge for those downstream? What plans are made
for the eventual repair and replacement of present infrastructure
municipal sewers?

Where do you think fossil oil came from? Dead stuff, is where,
common dirt, squashed anaerobically. There is a process which can
use household waste food to produce crude oil. I bet the process is
poisoned by trace contaminents like, oh I don't know, paint, or the
fact that the profit centre for oil is right now located elsewhere,
and is infinitely more attractive to anyone with an oil well still
producing in his back yard.

Yes, this is on topic for better boating with fewer stupid restrictions.

Terry K

I support David Suzuki as this year's greatest Canadian, but what's
he gonna do for us next year? What are YOU gonna do? That will be
his real measure.