"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:49:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:44:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:29:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:22:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:44:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


And your son was in his late 20's?

If he was an adolescent, and he wasn't interested in the
boobs,
then
he was either too embarrassed to let you know, or he's
just
not
very
interested in females (IMHO).

He wasn't raised by a television like so many other kids.

AH! Now you know the point of this whole issue.

He prefers reality.

And that's good for you as a parent, and him as a person
who
will
likely become a responsible adult. Some people mature early
on,
and
can handle the reality of the adult world, and make
decisions
based
on
the big picture. Many other kids, though, are empty of
guiding
principles, and will lock on to whatever is handy, and too
often
that
is the TV. You say that the chaperoning the TV is the
parent's
job.
But the parents are often not responsible themselves, or
cannot
be
there at every point, or when they are at their friend's
homes.

Isn't this interesting? I have a kid with "guiding
principles",
and
it
somehow happened without religion. Remarkable.


Could it be that your son received his "guiding principles"
from
parents who had received "guiding principles" from their
parents?

Or has your entire life been devoid of anything religious?

Pretty much. My parents waited till I was 7 or 8 to start
attending
synagogue. You can't wait that long to start brainwashing kids.
You
have
to
start when they're small so they have no choice. Otherwise,
they
have
to
find it themselves later in life if they choose to do so. So,
by
the
time
they got me there, I was skilled at shutting it off. They gave
up
by
the
time I was 12.




What? No fountain pens at age 13?

I made a typo. It was 13. To complete the story, I steadfastly
refused
to
focus on bar mitzvah preparation. A week beforehand, the rabbi said
"Look.
This is out of your control. Your parents want this, and they've
already
paid for the party and the restaurant". So, in a week, I did the
whole
thing. The party was actually pretty good. My friend Gary began
flicking
lobster eyeballs at the girls. The whole thing turned into a
circus.

I think my parents' mistake was that after Sunday school, they
always
took
my sister and I antique shopping. That's ridiculous. If you want to
get a
kid to do something they don't like, you don't reward them with
something
worse, especially on the weekend. My ex-wife has figured this out.
She
gets
my son to attend the Unitarian church because afterwards, she
offers
to
stick around downtown for a hour so he can take advantage of a park
that
has
lots of cement structures that are as attractive to skateboarders
as a
shipwreck is to a fisherman looking for bottom structure. :-)


Is all this to imply that your parents had no part in the
determination of your guiding principles, and therefore the guiding
principles you pass to your son?

John, you really have comprehension issues. That doesn't make you a
bad
person. I'm just sayin'.....

It implies that religion played no part in my beliefs. The first time
I
saw
"fear" and "god" on the same page, I shut it all down. Anyone who
falls
for
that is a fool.


So somehow, your parents managed to raise you and totally withhold any
effects of their religion on your "guiding principles." Somehow, I
think you are being false to your parents.

I have no idea what motivated THEM. My mother said she hardly ever
attended
while growing up. My father's family attended with some regularity.
Matter
of fact, his brother was a rabbi. But, there was at least a 10 year span
after he left the service when he and my mother were in no way involved.
I'm
convinced their return to the synagogue was a reaction to our moving from
Queens to a neighborhood and school district almost totally devoid of
Jewish
families.

You can theorize all you want about how I got this way, but the fact
remains
that there are families comprised of multiple generations of atheists
who've
lived perfectly good lives and raised perfectly fine children. You do NOT
need religion (a central brain) to figure out how to live in harmony with
other people.


I don't deny your claim about atheists. If your parents were not
affected by their religion, then perhaps your grandparents were
religious? Could the values held by your parents have been passed on
by your grandparents? Affected by religion, perhaps?

Methinks thou dost protest too much, as do most atheists.

My maternal grandmother's primary contribution to my life was an endless
supply of chocolate pudding and oatmeal/raisin cookies - the ultimate
display of love. Her husband was a feather costume specialist who made his
money creating costumes for the Rockettes. He wasn't home much. My main
memory of him was Rheingold beer. :-)