OzOne wrote in message ...
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:53:56 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 05:08:00 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message

On 10 Nov 2004 11:05:26 -0600, Dave scribbled
thusly:

To take an anecdotal example, my daughter attended an elementary
school
where the minimum criterion for admission was a very high IQ score,
regardless of the parents' wealth. She then attended a private prep
school
where the parents' money was at least a significant admission
factor
for
many students and the average IQ was much lower. The two groups
were
just
about on a par in their college records of both admissions and
performance.

Yep, one group had brains, the other a work ethic passed from their
successful parents.

So how does this support your contention that SAT/ACT scores correlate
with
IQ????? Two groups with disparate IQ averages, and both scored
roughly
the
same on the tests. Did the significance of this escape you?

Max

Has it escaped you that you don't need a high IQ to do well at school?
It's all about application.

I don't believe this. No, it has not escaped my notice, but that's not
what
this discussion is about. We're discussing the relationship between IQ
and
SAT/ACT scores, not extraneous factors that can mean success in school or
on
the tests.

Jeez, let's start from the beginning: The website you provided has
contended a direct correlation between IQ and SAT/ACT scores. But the
anecdote related by Dave would indicate that IQ may have little or
nothing
to do with success on the exams. Two groups, one with a higher average
IQ,
the other with a lower average IQ, both scoring equally well on the
entrance
exams. That could conceivably be used as an example of why the Kerry
states
really might not have higher IQs, rather other extraneous factors leading
to
high SAT/ACT scores. Thus my contention is correct: the website
purporting
to show the relative IQs of the various states is bogus, if using
college
entrance exam scores as the basis of those state IQ ratings.

(whew) Got it?

Max

You probably should read this
http://www.sq.4mg.com/IQ-SAT.htm
"Claude Steele: Chair of the Department of Psychology at Stanford
University since 1997

But is this SAT an IQ test? "It is in a sense an IQ test. The SAT and
IQ test correlate very highly. Between the SAT and the IQ, they
correlate almost as much as the SAT correlates with a second
administration of the SAT, as much as it correlates with itself. So
they're very similar tests in content." from
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/test/views.html"

and this

http://www.scienceblog.com/community...e=article&sid=
2297
"Meredith C. Frey and Douglas K. Detterman, researchers at Case
Western Reserve University, have shown that students' SAT test scores
correlate as highly as, and sometimes higher than, IQ tests correlate
with each other. This is strong evidence that the SAT is a de facto
intelligence test. Their findings will be published in the June issue
of Psychological Science, a journal of the American Psychological
Society.

While this finding may be surprising to many who take the test, it was
no surprise to the researchers. The origins of the SAT can be traced
back to intelligence tests that were originally given to screen
entrants into the armed forces. Many who study intelligence had
suspected that the SAT was an intelligence test though it seems no one
had ever investigated the relationship."

and this
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-smm021104.php
SAT measures more than student performance, research shows it is also
a reliable measure of IQ
Each year thousands of high school students take the Scholastic
Assessment Test, or SAT, hoping to gain admission to the college of
their choice. Colleges and universities use SAT scores to help project
a prospective student's performance. But research shows there is more
to the SAT, that it is really an intelligence test.

Interesting reading. I skimmed two of them, but I shall avail myself of
them more thoroughly when time permits.

However I think the relationship, as stated in these treatises, between SAT
scores and IQ is a theoretical one at best, and a casual one at worst. As
Dave has pointed out several times, there are myriad other factors that can
affect success or failure on such exams. Given a small, well-defined
population of similarly raised, similarly-educated individuals, I think that
the SAT scores may correlate well with IQ. But the demographics of the
total population of students taking such exams is not so narrow, rather
widely varied throughout the country and throughout the socio-economic
spectra. Reality seldom emulates theory where humans are concerned.

Max