Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Where you and I differ is that I believe that there could very well be
a substantial reduction in government spending

Oh, we don't differ at all on that. I'd love to see the federal gov't
cut it's budget by 1/2. To start with, I'd cut the Presidents &
Congresses salary & benefits dramatically.

... or at the very least,
a redistribution of current spending priorities which would make the
amount of spending more palatable.

Palatable to whom?

Frankly, I disagree with handing bazillions of dollars to Halliburton
(and JimH insists that rich people don't get "gov't benefits" to equal
welfare!) for gods & services that they often don't deliver, and are of
no use to the American citizenry when they do. I also disagree with
handing millions of dollars in tax money to churches... let the Faith
Based Initiative close up shop and give all the money back to the
taxpayers, let *them* decide what to do with it!




Personally, I object to the flat tax on moral grounds. It is a de facto
penalty on the poor, and trivializes tax expense to the super-rich....
who BTW gain the most from gov't services, so shouldn't they pay more?


I make, in the course of a year, with retirement income and such, a
goodly amount - some would call it "super-duper-rich". What is it
exactly that I gain in direct government services that someone with a
low income gets? Do I get home heating assistance? No.

You could if you wanted to stand in line and fill out a lot of paperwork.

... Do I get
food stamps? No.

You probably couldn't get those... do you want them?

... Do I get Husky Healthcare for my kids? No.

But OTOH you do get medical care that is supervised by the gov't,
provided by doctors & nurses that have been trained in accordance with
carefully regulated programs... in short the gov't has provided all the
background services & infrastructure for your medical care... and you
can afford the best, lucky you.

... Do I
get rent assistance? No.

Do you want it?


So, just out curiosity, what direct government assistance do I receive
that allows the government to take what it does, which is not
insubstantial I might add, that adds up to more than I contribute?

Ah, now you want to muddy the water... it has to be "direct gov't
assistance" now, in the form of cash handed to you by the gov't?

Let me put it this way... at the most basic level, the gov't prevents
some low-life from smacking you over the head and taking away all your
expensive toys.

A person with no expensive toys doesn't get this service, do they?

Would you like to hire a couple of rent-a-cops to watch all of your
property, and one to follow you around all day every day? That alone
would probably be pretty expensive, far more than your heating
assistance and rent assistance and day care assistance and free lunches
etc etc etc.

Think.

DSK



What just what gives this low income individual the right to take more
of my money to them to use?

~~ snippage ~~


What I object to are sweet heart deals with the State that allows a
company like Verizon to give a 10% discount to State workers on top of
any promotional discounts - real citizens of the state, who pay the
freakin' bills - aren't given that privilege.

You need to join a good collective bargaining pool. This doesn't seem
like a gov't issue to me, just the power of mass purchasing.


It's not that at all. There is no moral difference between allowing a
state worker to gain an additional 10% over and above already
established promotions because one company is competing for a state
contract and giving the Governor a new set of gutters for a road
contract in his home town.

What it is a bribe - flat out bribe.

~~ snippage ~~


I don't know what the answer is, but we need to solve it quickly or
we're just going to keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

I suspect that it will never be solved. The ancient Greeks complained
about the same things... along with the shameful lack of respect &
intelligence by the teenagers, appalling traffic & poor road
maintenance... AFAIK they did not sail for recreation and so did not
comlain about the lousy wind, but I bet they griped about poor fishing.


I understand that universal griping had been around for as long as
human history has been recorded. The problem now is that we're just
not getting anywhere with it. We have politicians who just don't care
what we, the citizens, think. We have activist judges so out of touch
with the general population that they believe that they are all
powerful and can do whatever the hell they want - the voting citizens
be damned.

Damn - I'm off on another rant. Sorry.


Other than that, I agree on all points. Well said!


Thanks man. Only goes to prove that we can reach consensus on some
points anyway. :)

Later,

Tom