On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 18:33:43 -0500, DSK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
For that, I'm willing to pay, right off the top - no excuses, 15% of what
I make every year even though I'm retired.

Sorry, but the way things are run nowadays 15% from everybody would
result in either disastrous deficits or huge cuts in gov't spending...
probably both.

Where you and I differ is that I believe that there could very well be
a substantial reduction in government spending, or at the very least,
a redistribution of current spending priorities which would make the
amount of spending more palatable.

Personally, I object to the flat tax on moral grounds. It is a de facto
penalty on the poor, and trivializes tax expense to the super-rich....
who BTW gain the most from gov't services, so shouldn't they pay more?

I make, in the course of a year, with retirement income and such, a
goodly amount - some would call it "super-duper-rich". What is it
exactly that I gain in direct government services that someone with a
low income gets? Do I get home heating assistance? No. Do I get
food stamps? No. Do I get Husky Healthcare for my kids? No. Do I
get rent assistance? No. Do I get day care assistance? No. Do I
get AFDC assistance? No. Do I get free healthcare? No.

So, just out curiosity, what direct government assistance do I receive
that allows the government to take what it does, which is not
insubstantial I might add, that adds up to more than I contribute?

What just what gives this low income individual the right to take more
of my money to them to use?

~~ snippage ~~

What I object to are sweet heart deals with the State that allows a
company like Verizon to give a 10% discount to State workers on top of
any promotional discounts - real citizens of the state, who pay the
freakin' bills - aren't given that privilege.

You need to join a good collective bargaining pool. This doesn't seem
like a gov't issue to me, just the power of mass purchasing.

It's not that at all. There is no moral difference between allowing a
state worker to gain an additional 10% over and above already
established promotions because one company is competing for a state
contract and giving the Governor a new set of gutters for a road
contract in his home town.

What it is a bribe - flat out bribe.

~~ snippage ~~

I don't know what the answer is, but we need to solve it quickly or
we're just going to keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

I suspect that it will never be solved. The ancient Greeks complained
about the same things... along with the shameful lack of respect &
intelligence by the teenagers, appalling traffic & poor road
maintenance... AFAIK they did not sail for recreation and so did not
comlain about the lousy wind, but I bet they griped about poor fishing.

I understand that universal griping had been around for as long as
human history has been recorded. The problem now is that we're just
not getting anywhere with it. We have politicians who just don't care
what we, the citizens, think. We have activist judges so out of touch
with the general population that they believe that they are all
powerful and can do whatever the hell they want - the voting citizens
be damned.

Damn - I'm off on another rant. Sorry.

Other than that, I agree on all points. Well said!

Thanks man. Only goes to prove that we can reach consensus on some
points anyway. :)

Later,

Tom