:
BTW, there won't be any Social Security...we pay heavily for our own
health
insurance, and banks are protected by the FDIC....if you are counting on

People have been saying that for 40 years. My mother gets SS, as did
my father and most of their friends. Do they rely on it completely?
No. But, it's an important part of their retirement. They deserve
it. They paid for it.

I'm not saying they didn't pay for it....take a poll, Jon...the majority of
the US actuially believes that they are going to be taken care of by the
government...Social Security and Medicare...in their old age....they do not
have savings...they have very little equity in their homes because they buy
second mortgages and home equity loans...many have gone to reverese
mortgages to get by....

Social Security to take care of you when you're ancient, you're really in
sad shape...that is the biggest myth the Democrats ever promulgated and
FDR
never intended that people should live on SS benefits...they were to be an
assistance...all the money I have put into the SS system has gone to take
care of those that are drawing right now....there won't be the population
necessary to do the same for me when I retire. Public utilities? What
are
those? We have a well and a septic field...and there is no public

Don't you know? I guess next time you're in a car accident and have to
go to an emergency room or you have to dial 911 and no one answers,
you'll figure it out.

Figure what out? That the 6K I shell out of my pocket (my portion of my
emplyer's plan) and the 20% deductible and the co-pay and my check book pay
the bill? I've got that all figured out.

Grand Rapids is not the rest of the country. How
about the homeless?

We are not speaking of those individuals who honestly cannot get by in life.
They, of course, should be provided for. However, there are many on our
Social Service rosters who take advant5age of the system. I can tell you of
about 15 young ladies who are screwing the system as we speak...so if I know
20, then you probably know a few, too, as does most everyone. And I'm tired
of opaying for them. I speak monthly with FIA reps here in MI reporting on
my employee's wages....I know exactly what's going on. Yes, we do have
young ladies that need the assistance, but when I see someone who is
recieiving all kinds of government perks walking down the hall with her
camera cell phone, wearing $200.00 Nikes, and driving an SUV that gets at
best 15 mpg while receiving that assistance it makes my blood boil.

Should they be left to starve or freeze to death?

If course not, but we're not talking about them, are we? We're talking
about Joe the Average American.


transportation outside the city limits of Grand Rapids unless you drive to
the Mall to take the bus in...and no commuter trains...so I guess I'm
really
not worried about those things..I've never had them so won't miss them.
As far as your abortion diatribe, my opinions do not have anything to do
with government...if the government puts it up for a vote, then as a
citizen
I vote and have my say...if it's not to my liking, I have the RIGHT to
still
have my say, which you seem to not understand....if a mother's life is in
danger, then there is a necessity for abortion.

But that's the point. The right-wing fanatics are not interested in
the life of the mother. They would ban all abortions for all reasons.

Nom they wouldn't. Just as Doug pointed out, there are various scenarios of
what people will accept and not accept. The problem is the slippery slope
thing....where do you draew the line?

Over the years I have never
met anyone who had an abortion for that reason. I have known women who
had
them for monetary reasons...because they didn't want to wait and give the
baby up for adoption...because they wanted to get back at the man and
punish
him...because it was a girl baby and not a boy like they wanted....there
are
scenarios where an abortion is the lesser of two evils...those incidences
are not in that category...

Just because you haven't doesn't mean they don't exist. You would
saddle a 15 year old with a child she can't take care of and doesn't
want all because of one mistake?

Yes. I would. She is culpable. She must learn how to take care of what
whe has brought into the world or she must give the baby up for adoption.

She's going to be mature enough to
take care of herself long enough to have a healthy baby?

Yes. There are programs available. And there are plenty of infertile
couples who want that baby.

What about
the girl who was raped by her father, uncle or boyfriend, but is
afraid to say anything?

Grasping here, Jon. The chances of preganancy in those cases is probably
very slight. But then you get to the lesser of two evils thing. That's one
of the gray areas.


Seems rather cruel, but if that's ok with you,
fine. It's not ok with me, and I don't think your or my will should be
imposed on the rest of the people.

It's not yours or mine individual wills but the combined wills of many
people.


That's what you don't seem to
understand.

Oh, I understand quite well. You want it all your way. And everyone else
is wrong.

As far as getting out, I'm out every day....I read the medical trade
journals for the long term care industry. What you have to remember is
that
San Francisco is not the world...it is a very specialized community that
lives quite differently than the rest of us in the US....

I don't live nor do I work in SF. Neither is GR. So do you.