Hi Barry,

I completely understand where you're coming from. I think it's wise of you
to get a whitewater boat instead of taking your recreational boat down
rivers that are to demanding for it. I've seen many people get in trouble
that way and even saw one man die some years ago.

In the "catalogs" post above a man presented a Prijon Tornado for sale.
That would be a good boat for you. It's old style but seems to be just what
you're looking for. Since it's an older boat, around 10 years give or take,
you should get a good price on it. I'm actually surprised to see one around
that's brand new. It ranks in the creek boat category by today's standards.
It has a displacement hull so it will be initially less stable but it's
secondary stability will be good and rolling it will be easier than the
newer boats. Most newer whitewater boats have plainning hulls or at least
something with soft chines for ease of carving and surfing. If this doesn't
make sense let me know and I will explain it easier.

You mentioned not having any paddlers near you. I highly suggest that you
join a paddling club and get some instruction on rolling as well as meeting
up with others when you're on the water. The rule of thumb is to never
paddle alone. You probably already know that though. The club doesn't have
to be near you. As you know paddlers drive for hours to hit good rivers.

If you need any other advise I'm happy to help. I've been whitewater
paddling for about 12 years, sea kayaking for about 4 and have been working
in the industry for about 8 years now.

Take care,
Courtney


"Barry" wrote in message
.net...
Courtney...

Thanks for the help. I'm limited in terms of talking with dealers, other
paddlers, clubs etc. as I moved to a very remote area on the upper Smith
River in California about two years ago. I know there are other paddlers
in
the nearest town...and probably some around me (although there are only
about 500 people in this area...so not finding another paddler would not
surprise me. Even the nearest town does not have a kayak dealer...at
least
one that is a "real" kayak dealer. There is a decent store in cities to
the
north and south of me...but it requires that I drive about four hours or
so
to find them. In essence it ties up the entire day. What I'm trying to
do
is gain some knowledge before I take a week or so to "hit the road" and
visit some dealers. I'm going to locate those that will allow me to try
some boats...if possible. I already have an ocean kayak and a
recreational
"do it all" kayak. I have fun with both and don't have a lot of money
wrapped up in either. They are good beginner boats. However, I've
already
gotten into trouble (not serious) using the recreational boat in the white
water. It does not have sufficient volume and the skinny water is tough
on
me as I bounce off rocks and boulders. I never considered the fact that
hitting a boulder in fast rapids can hurt. I also don't have the
maneuverability I need in a couple of runs, causing me to take a
conservative line rather that one that would be more fun. I read water on
the rivers pretty well as I've done a lot of white water stuff with one of
two drift boats that I have (I don't know if you're familiar with the
Rogue
river style drift boats or not but they are heavily rockered and have
totally flat bottoms...tapered both at the bow and stern). I've always
loved drifting rivers but I'm limited as to what water I can handle. The
ocean kayak that I now have is fine for now but I really need a river
boat....with a lot of volume and sufficient maneuverability to handle the
white water in the water around me in a way that is really fun. I can run
the river with my recreational kayak as it's not too long...but it has too
much initial stability for me and not enough volume...and I can't dive
into
anything at all or I'm in trouble. It's impossible to roll up, by the
way...at least for me. I don't have a good roll anyway...at least in
"real
life situations". I can do fine in a pool...but in the real world, if the
situation is such that I end up upside down, I get so disoriented that I
have a very hard time rolling back up and usually panic....and then doing
a
wet exit. I'll get better, I know...and I also know that a true river
kayak
will be easier to deal with than what I have.

Barry


"Courtney" wrote in message
k.net...
Barry,

There are creekboats, playboats and river runners. For a beginner
whitewater paddler the safest route to go would be a river runner but
with
your height and weight a creekboat would work well for your first boat.
River runners do a little of everything such as play waves and holes
along
with running rapids well. Creekboats don't play much but run rapids and
punch big holes great. Playboats play great but depending on what type
of
playboat you have may limit you as to what type of rapids you may want
to
take it on. Some rapids will play more with your playboat than you'd
like
them to. There are so many boats to chose from. A good source to check
on
used boats is a site called BoaterTalk. Other good places are your
local
paddling club and the paddling stores around you. Check out the
manufacturer web sites as well for new boats such as Pyranha, Wave
Sport,
Dagger, Perception, Eskimo, etc... Pay some attention to the weight
limits
but not full attention. Basically, if you're higher than the
recommended
weight, the boat will be more playful, lower and the boat will be more
of
a
river runner or creeker. I hope I have helped you. Also there are
other
paddling newsgroup called rec.boats.paddle and
rec.boats.paddle.whitewater
that will have many more whitewater kayakers on it to help you further.

Courtney


"Barry" wrote in message
. net...
Matt...

I'm looking for a creekboat/whitewater boat...with lots of volume.
I'll
check on the kayak you mentioned.

Thanks
Barry


"Matt Langenfeld" wrote in message
ink.net...
I'll take a limited shot at this one.

What are you looking to do on the river? There are 3 kinds of "river"
yaks: whitewater, creekboat, and playboat. As I understand it, ww
yaks
have the most volume and aren't meant to sink as deep in the water as
say
a creekboat. But with your size, you may need something with more
volume
anyway.

I've heard Wilderness System Diesel is pretty could for big boys.

Hope that provides some info and didn't make your choice harder.

--
Matt Langenfeld
JEM Watercraft
http://jem.e-boat.net/

Barry wrote:
I've really been bitten by the kayaking bug. I have taken several
long
trips and many shorts ones off the coast of Northern
California...and
had
a lot of fun. I continue to enjoy the ocean kayaking but I don't
want
to
limit myself to just the ocean. I have a house on the banks of the
Smith
River in Northern California (in Hiouchi). I can literally walk to
the
river with my kayak. I have my old kayak...which I purchased before
I
bought my ocean kayak. It's a true recreational kayak but is short
enough to allow it to be used in the river. I have taken a few
trips
down the river in that kayak and have had a lot of fun...but it's
not
really a "river kayak". As a result, I'm limited as to what I can
do
with it. I'm going to buy a river kayak...and there are many to
chose
from...for the average size guy. I am 6'3" tall and about 260 lbs.
I
played football and wrestled in college...and lifted weights (which
I
still do on a regular basis). While I can lose some weight and get
down
to my "fighting weight"...I'll still be about 235 lbs. That limits
what
I can use as a river kayak. I've tried a few and found that not
only
is
my weight a problem but I have short legs (for my height) and a
long,
large torso. This puts more of my body weight above the cockpit
level.
To some extent, that's an advantage as I can leverage my kayak a bit
better by using my body weigh i.e. snapping my kayak upright etc.
BUT...it also means that I don't have the stability that a "normal"
sized
person might have.

My question: What river kayaks are available for big guys? I live
in
a
remote area. I'm going to drive to the bigger cities in Oregon
(Hiouchi
is near the Oregon border) and also visit the Bay area (San
Francisco
area) in California...on a search for a river kayak. However, I'd
sure
appreciate some suggestions. While I like composite kayaks, I've
been
impressed with my old plastic boat and its ability to withstand the
abuse
of river kayaking. The Smith river has a lot of large boulders that
I've
already encountered "up close and personal". I can read water
pretty
well as I fly fish and have had a drift boat(s) for twenty years.

Your thoughts? Advice?

Barry