"Vito" wrote in message
...

Terrorism predates the 1st gulf war.

Duh.


and the slow eradication of its indigineous Muslim population

Odd - the Muslim population has growth steadily over the last 100 years.
This
is a particularly insidious lie because it implies that there is some form
of
"ethnic cleansing" going on. This is blatantly false.

Please cite figures showing that the Muslim population of Palistine (not the
world as a whole) has grown since 1948.

Cite figures? Are you daft? Do you really believe this "ethnic cleansing"
nonsense? OK, the number of Palestinian refugees that left the new state of
Israel has been reported at 450,000 (by UN observers) to 600,000 (the number
usually cited in Israel) to 1,000,000 (the number Palestine usually cite).
Since the last census before partition showed about 800,000 Arabs and two years
later the number was about 160,000, the middle number has the most credibility.

The current population of the West Bank and Gaza is over 3,000,000, and a larger
number of Palestinians have emigrated to other countries.


As far as ethnic cleansing goes
that is an ongoing observable process.

Total rubbish - only a deranged racist would believe such crap.

Remember the massacres in the refugee
camps in Lebanon orchestrated by none other than Sharon - the same man who
torpedoed Clinton's peace initiative.

More total rubbish - even the Palestinians don't believe this.



The has always been a Jewish community in Palestine. And remember, a
significant number (some say a majority) of those now claiming to be
"indigenous" Palestinians actually immigrated along with the Jewish
immigrants,
who created economic opportunities.

Yes indeed, but these were few compared to the flood of "displaced
persons" - European Jews who had been driven from their homes by the Nazis
then kept out by their good Christian neighbors. Nor did these prewar
settlers declare a Jewish State and begin ousting their non-jewish neighbors
who wanted to obey Muslim vs Jewish custom and law.

They did however purchase a large amount of land - roughly 80% of the land that
is actually populated by Jews was purchased from the Arab land holders before
partition.



These terrorist attacks can only worsen as the last
Palistinians are either killed or driven out.

There is absolutly no evidence that anything like this is going on.

On the contrary, the evidence is obvious. There was no "Jewish State" in
1947; now it occupies most of Palestine and part of Jordan. There was
enough land devoid of Jewish settlements to create a Palistinian state as
recently as the last decade when Clinton proposed just that and both sides
agreed. But a palistinian state would have precluded the annexation of
those lands by Israel. So Sharon ****ed in the mosque and the whole deal
collapsed.

Once again you've repeated this blatant lie. There was no correlation between
the Mosque incident and the Intifada. From the Palestinian Communications
Minister 'Imad Al-Faluji two years ago (Al-Safir, March 3, 2001, trans. MEMRI):
"Whoever thinks the Intifada broke out because of the despised Sharon's visit to
the Al-Aqsa Mosque is wrong....This Intifada was planned in advance, ever since
President Arafat's return from the Camp David Negotiations." Even earlier,
Al-Faluji had explained that the Intifada was initiated as the result of a
strategic decision made by the Palestinians (Al-Ayyam, December 6, 2000).
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/planned.html

Further, Sharon did not enter any Mosque as he had been advised by the
Palestinian Authority that the visit would be OK if he did not enter. One must
remember that the site he visited (the Temple Mount) is the holiest site in
Judaism, being the location of the First and Second Temples. At the time of the
visit there was only a minor protest, the major protest started a day later with
the encouragement of Arafat. The actual Intifada had started a month earlier.


Now there is not enough *contiguous* land free of Jewish
settlement to create a palistinian state anymore. Every month, more and more
land is taken by The Jewish State, just as more and more land was taken from
Native Americans by our own US Government - and it won't stop until it has
all been taken and the few palistinians left are in refugee camps ... excuse
me "reservations".

The impediment to Peace is not the settlements - that can be dealt with. Its
clear that Arafat and Hamas have no desire to have Peace.



The original Jewish European

European? The largest group of settlers (before the Russian Jews)
actually came
from other Muslim countries. It is often overlooked that as 600,000
Palestinians were voluntarily leaving (on the advice of Arab leaders) a
much
larger number of Jews were being evicted from Muslim countries. While the
Palestinians were allowed to take all their possessions, the Jews
generally had
everything confiscated.

Yes European! In the years after WW2 and before Britian left nobody knows
how many million European refugees

Millions? You've gone off the deep end here Vito. The actual number was about
83,000. A significant number, but small compared to, for example, the number
expelled from Iraq a few years later.

moved to "the promised land" - Palistine.
Nobody knows because their immigration was illegal! Why do you think Arab
leaders advised Palistinian Muslims to leave??

They had more political power that way?

Moreover, the Europeans
comprising Israel did not welcome these middle-eastern Jews right away.

Totally wrong - all were accepted. Who do you think brought them in? This is
unlike the Arab community which has not contributed a penny to the Palestinian
Refugees.


Invaders? They were legal immigrants who purchased land from Muslims
eager to sell.

No, they were not. Britian was charged with protecting Palistine from them.
I knew men who were in that force. As one put it "You have a boatload of
people who look and act just like yourself, who have no place to go, and
you're ordered to force them back to sea to protect a bunch of rag heads who
wear dresses so they can better **** in the street ..... Guess what we did?
And guess who we handed our guns and ammo to when we left!" Eager to sell?
I'm eager to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for a million bucks too, since I
don't own it. Ditto Indians who sold Manhattan.

Most of the land in Palestine that was sold was owned either by the state
(Turkey) or by absentee landlords.


This was true in the case of the Polish Jews, who tried to return to
Poland and
were rejected. But for the most part the European Jews were wiped out by
the
Holocaust and the survivers were a small part of the immagration.

Last I looked, Poland was in Europe. We know that there were 600(?) MILLION

600 Million??? Vito, you're soft as puppy ****.


fewer Jews in Europe when the first post-war censuses were taken and
propagandists claim that Nazis killed that many. But Nazis were meticulous
record keepers and their records show hundreds of millions less were killed.
Why the descrepancy? Obviously many of the Jews comprising this
descrepancy - the survivors - didn't stay in Europe to be counted. Some went
to America, etc., and a whole flock (millions?) went to Palistine. That's
the invasion I'm talking about.

So now you're claiming the Holocaust never happened? All the "missing" Jews
snuck into Palestine? Now you're showing your true colors, Vito.



There was no need to fight; they have been offered peace many times, ....

As were American Indians. All they had to do was nuckle under to The Jewish
State and obey its laws and customs.

As the descendents of the Palestinians who chose to stay have done. There are
over a million Arabs happy to be citizens in Israel now.



so they become suicide bombers - terrorists if you will.

If I will??? If your child was blown up while on a school bus I think you
would
call them terrorists.

Sure would. But what would you call the girl who blew up the bus -

A victim of child abuse by the cowards of Hamas.

the teen
who gave her life to avenge your child, killed by an American tank driven by
an Israeli who just moved in from the ex-USSR? Like I said, there's plenty
of hate and blame to go around.

Or, when the majority of the Palestinians, who want peace, take control of
their lives.

The majority want peace to live their lives in accordance with their own
laws and customs - not peace at any price, not at the price of being second
class citizens subject to Kosher law and custom.

Kosher Law? Is that what you think this is about? Half of the Jews in Israel
are "secular" and could care less about Kosher.



Slick Willy Clinton had a compromise deal almost tied up -

Isreal offered to give the Palestinians virtually everything they asked
for in return for Peace.

Yes, and peace was nearly at hand -
until the current PM of Israel defiled a mosque.

Absolute nonsense - even the Palestinians admit this is completely false.

Funny, all the news reported it as true. What Palistinians say he didn't?
Cite?

Cited above. Only an idiot or a dupe beleives this silly claim. Arafat had
already rejected the peace plan and had started a new wave of violence. So says
the PA Minister of Communication.



Vito's post is proof that there will always be stupid people.

Name calling is ever the refuge of the prejudised when their prejudises are
attacked by truth.

No, this isn't name calling, its a statement of fact. People that repeat
obvious falsehoods over and over deserve to be called stupid. Repeating lies
and denying the Holocaust are pretty clear signs of this.


Half the Middle East? Are you saying the Jews are entitled to half of
Saudi
Arabia?

Read your Bible. Was half of Saudi Arabia included?

You're the one who mentioned "half of the Middle East." Which half were you
talking about?


The fundamental problem is the belief by some in the Muslim community that
they
have a divine right to rule all the land from India to Spain.

One could instead argue that the fundamental problem is the belief by some
that the Jewish State has a devine right to rule the lands God gave Moses,
but the fact is neither one is "the fundamental problem". The fundamental
problem is mans eagerness to murder everybody who disagrees with his own
often idiotic religeous notions.

The vast majority of Israelis would do anything for for a true peace, including
giving up most of the settlements. Most of the Palestinians would do the same.
Unfortunately, the Intifada is continued by those that would lose their power if
Peace broke out.