"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:36 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:

Nonsense! You don't seem to be able to work with the original
quotation.
That's OK. I'll try to move down to your level.

Example A: "We hold these truths self-evident."
Example B: "We hold these truths passionately."

By your arguments, Example B should be written as "We hold these
truths
passionate".


Even someone with your limited understanding of basic grammar should be
able
to see that you are wrong.

On the contrary. By my argument Example B is correct as written. Why?
Because there is no understood "to be" verb in Example B. Let me
illustrate:

Example A as Jefferson wrote it: "We hold these truths to be
self-evident."
Example A as Donal wrote if: "We hold these truths self-evident."

Please do NOT misrepresent me.

I *very* deliberately enclosed "We hold these truths to be self-evident." in
quotation marks because they were *your* words.

Let me make it absolutely clear - you (Dave) wrote those words. That is
why I enclosed them in QUOTATION MARKS. Geddit??


That phrase demonstrated, beyond reasonable doubt, that you are totally
ignorant of basic grammatical constructs.

--Both
entirely correct, since the "to be," though not stated in Example A as
Donal
wrote it, is understood.

Correction!!!! I *Quoted* it. *YOU* wrote it.

"Self-evident" is an adjective referring to truths,
not an adverb describing how the truths are held. The understood reflexive
"to be" tells us that.

Well done. You are beginning to show a glimmer of understanding.
Perhaps you are now capable of understanding *your* original example.
"How shameful that the commission's attack dogs hold their sacrifices so
cheaply.""

You consistently seek to avoid your own original quotation.



Example B as Jefferson wouldn't have written it: "We hold these truths to
be
passionately."--incorrect, since he intends to describe how the truths are
held rather than to describe the truths themselves.
Example B as Donal wrote it: "We hold these truths
passionately" --entirely
correct, since there is no understood "to be." "Passionately" is not an
adjective. It's an adverb telling how the truths are held.

Em ...... so was "cheaply" in ***your*** original quotation.


Once you get beyond the sixth grade level, Donal, the grammar requires a
bit
of subtlety and an ear for the language, not the application of simple
formulaic rules, as you would perhaps have seen had you read the
references
I gave you earlier.

I read them. They were wrong.

If I were you, I would sue the university. They were guilty of a very
serious fraud when they gave you a degree in English.


Regards


Donal
--