OzOne wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 04:28:27 GMT, otnmbrd
scribbled thusly:



OzOne wrote:


True, but still worth considering.

All things are worth considering ....after consideration, some are
discarded some are not.

And the idea that fiberglass boats are not easily seen with radar is
not one to be discarded

Of course not, but their construction may have nothing to do with the
fact that they weren't seen. Fiberglass construction is not a catch all
for poor radar visibility, just as steel in not a catch all for good
radar visibility. Once again, there are many variables involved, be it a
small boat or a big ship, with radar. My point is .... no matter what
you are, what your construction, don't expect to be seen, and this is
especially true for small boats in open sea conditions and involves many
factors.

snipped a bunch of items, intended to bolster your position
I look at items such as these as examples of possible problems, not
absolutes ... you remember these things, and work around them, apply
them to your conditions, find them in error at times, find them true at
other times, etc.


In most conditions.
How do you know if you haven't picked up that kayak? Can you hear the
screams over the engine noise?

That could apply to any day or night, good visibility or bad .....
wouldn't have a clue that he'd been there.


Ahh sarcasm :-)

Not at all .... reality.


I've also seen conditions, not only on ships, but, probably more so on
smaller boats, where a pure fiberglass boat, was visible on all ranges
at good distances.


Uh huh, relatively calm and flat.

Not always


But usually

no, not necessarily. There are many conditions and very few absolutes.


So there are conditions where you wouldn't notice a small boat or
yacht!

Of course ..... in good visibility, bad visibility, day or night.



G Survival of license requires that you treat all recreational boaters
as being a threat. I've made turns to avoid some sailboat, only to have
it gybe and try to cut back across my bow .... at least there's no way
they could say they hadn't seen this 90,000 ton 900' long tanker coming
their way.


True, There are many who cannot read a collision course.
The freighter that changed course toward us did so quite a few minutes
after we had gybed,

I can't comment as I don't know enough of the particulars of what you
and the ship were doing.


Fair enough, but I can assure you that if we were visible on his radar
or by the watch, he, in open waters, paid absolutely no heed to our
alteration of course to avoid him and instead altered course forcing
us to then make an urgent alteration back onto our original course to
avoid coming waay to close for comfort.

Why did he change course? (can think of any number of possibilities)

I treat all ships with a great deal of respect mainly because I do
believe the stories of unmanned or sleeping watches
AND have lost friends without trace when there was no weather in the
area.

I believe few if any of those stories, but consider it a possibility on
rare occasions .... as to your lost friends, there can be many
possibilities ... getting run over by a ship is one of them, but in most
cases I'd be inclined to an alert watch that never saw them. I've had
too many near misses at sea to not believe otherwise.


Yep, the belief of most of those investigating their loss.
Checks were made on the ships believed to be in the area between their
last sked and the time the alarm was raised to see if there were any
signs of a collision. I don't recall anything being found.

There are a number of cases where this has worked out. I would guess
that in most cases, those on the ship did not have a clue, but
naturally, there will be those cases where this is not true. ... the old
story of the ship coming into port where the Mate went forward to
prepare the anchor for letting go. When he looked over the bow, he found
the mast sail and rigging of a small boat, snagged in the anchor ....
end of story, so to speak.

otn