Is it still bigotry if it's true?.


Well, for one, nobody has been able to dispute what I caim is true about
the brand.

IMHO It's bigotry starts when people take if few experiences or "truths"
and infer a broader belief. We ALL do it, we all have to. Otherwise
life would be too complex. It becomes bigotry when the belief remains
unaltered in light of any contradictory evidence. This definition
applies to anything, not just Bayliners. To illustrate:

Person A has a bad experience(s) with Bayliner. This is an absolute truth.

Person A states: "My Bayliner is a piece of ****" this is most likely an
absolute truth as it's their boat and they have direct experience with
it.

BUT

If person A states: "ALL Bayliners are ****". This is no longer a truth,
but a belief of a whole infered by a relatively small sample of the
population.

If Persons B & C, have had positive experiences and informs person A, and
person A states "It's still a Bayliner, so it MUST be crap". This is
bigotry. Person A now has new information of equal weight to what they
based their original opinion on but, they chose to ignore it.
Hypothetically. if you tell person A: "9 out of 10 Bayliners sucessfully
rounded cape horn" they'll cite the 10th boat as "proof" bayliners are
crap.

On the opposite side of the coin, If I use my experiences to go spouting
"all Bayliners are great". I would be over generalizing, and that is,
IMHO, bigotry as well.

But I don't make those claims, Wayne. I choose my words, I don't make
outrageous and broad claims about the line, and cite multiple examples for
the claims I do make. I have tried to be objective when people bring
actual examples to light. I am willing to take specific examples that
Harry and other present at face value, it just doesn't dispute the claim
that they are unfairly maligned.

Do they deserve any negative feedback? Sure. But realistically other
brands probably do as well, but they are not maligned in any way. Also,
there's a difference between someone stating that the brand does something
different making it unsuitable for a specifis use, and globally implying
that the brand is no good for any purpose, without even questioning what
it's intended use is.


I admire your spirited defense but am forced to question your judgement

Don't admire what is most probably a character flaw. :^) It's not that
I'm crazy about Bayliners, I own a Chris-Craft now. I just think some of
these boating snobs are doing a disservice to a large group of people,
when they toss out disparaging remarks without any due consideration. As
for questioning my judgement, if it pertains to trying to appeal to any
open-mindedness in this group? I'm beginning to agree.

Most of my issues with the
brand in question relate to long term durability, especially in a
tough environment, not the ability to undertake a given voyage on a
given day.

An excellent point. But if you refer to other posts in this thread, you
will have seen that I had other examples as well. Although I used one
example of a friend, several friends have owned Bayliners for over 10
years (one 17 years, one 12, one 9), have put countless hours on their
boats in all conditions, using them almost every weekend of the season.

These boats have been through hell and back, and two of them have the
scars to prove it. Would another brand fair better under similar use and
care? Maybe. I really don't know. I have seen other brands that have
not held up even with vigilant care, yet I do not necessarliy infer the
entire product line is bad.

My opinion is not based on one voyage. That would be stupid as others whe
contend Bayline is not viable because one boat fell apart in a short
time. I base my opinion using over ten years of personal experience with
the brand.


If you want to take a 16 foot boat of any kind out in 6
foot waves that's your business but please don't tell us how well
prepared you were. You were lucky, that's all. Most of us have been
at one time or another.

I'll take exception to this. Please don't tell me my getting back is due
to luck alone, because, quite simply Wayne, YOU WEREN'T THERE. You don't
know how the waves were, you don't know which direction they were coming
from, you don't know, the region, you don't know of the tactics used, and
you just don't know my abilities to handle these conditions.

Please keep in mind, I'm not arguing your opinion that this was not a
bright idea, I'm just arguing that you shouldn't make absulute statements
like: "You were lucky, that's all" when you don't have the facts to do
so.

From my point of view, it was a short passage, I knew the route, I knew
the weather, and I knew how to minimize the weathers impact on my boat.
I had bee caught out in similar conditions on a comparable sized craft. I
had the experience and the proper accessories to make the passage. Even
though I labeled the post "A great Bayliner Story", this is not a
testament to how great Bayliners are. I could have made that passage is
any comparable boat. Foremost, I simply thought it was an entertaining
story, the secondary consideration, was using it as an example that
Bayliner can't be "that bad" if they can an often do take weather as well
as any other boats I have experience with.

Was this a great idea? Of course not. But is wasn't a kamakazi mission
you report it to be either. And while I'll buy that some luck was
involved, in my safe passage, luck, whether good or bad, is involved in
ANY passage. It's how we prepare for a passage that either diminishes or
increases how much we have to rely on luck.

Nice chatting with you.

Bob Dimond