BoatBanter.com - View Single Post

On 17 Jul 2003 04:40:10 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

I said:

Again, you call me stupid, but you can't read. I've NEVER said
anything about the engine being new. You did. Dolt.

You replied:

Bzzzt. Wrong. I said ALL engines burn oil, whether new, old, or
anywhere in between. YOU are the one who brought up a burned exhaust
valve, which means the engine probably isn't new. I'm the one who said
it doesn't matter how old the engine is. Now we're even more sure you
can't read for content.

Hoohoo!! You are LOOSING it, man. Please read what I said, then read
your comment. You just may want to seek professional help. Seriously.

I'm certainly not going to use your guy. He's not helped you one bit.

You're saying that if the rings are worn enough, they will allow oil
past them. Nevermind the fact that this is always the case. So, the
rings are allowing oil past them into the cylinder. The compression
stroke comes along and you're saying that during the compression stroke,
the oil that is in the cylinder is going to be squeezed out past a
slightly leaky exhaust valve and will be "consumed" as far as the engine
is concerned. Right so far? Ok.

Wrong so far, ok? Ever hear of valve stem seals? Ever hear of the
wearing and leaking?

But YOU said the oil was going past a slightly burned exhaust valve.
Keep your story straight. Of course oil can get past valve stem seals.
It's also burned when it does.

Bull****. Intake yes, exhaust no.

Holy cow! We now have an admission that oil can be burned if it gets
past the intake valve stem seal. You know that it does, right? Never
mind the fact that you're mistaken about oil getting past the exhaust
valve stem seals not being burned. It is burned. Just how cold do you
think it is in the exhaust port and manifold?

Get on your meds, quick. You effing idiot, this WHOLE thread has been
about oil being burned in THE CYLINDER. Now you are saying that, if

WRONG WRONG WRONG. This whole thread has been about me saying that all
engines burn oil. YOU said an engine should burn NO oil. I never said
where the engine has to burn the oil, only that it does. The fact that
it burns oil left in the cylinder that got past the rings is only one
way. It also burns oil that gets past the PCV valve or breather, which
happes to burn in the cylinder, but that's besides the point. It also
can burn oil by your method, which would then burn in the exhaust port
or manifold.

You have still yet to give a single shred of evidence to support your
assertion that an engine should burn NO oil. You've been provided with
a lot of evidence, including one you provided yourself, that says
burning some oil is normal for an engine.

So now I'm finally going to ask you to put up or shut up. Just like you
have asked so many times and have been provided with the requested
reference, would you please provide a technical reference that
specifically says an engine normally burns NO oil, not even a single
molecule, under normal operation.

If you can't do that, it's time for you to finally skulk away.

some leaks into a hot exhaust chamber, your case is made because the
oil hit something hot!!! TOO FUNNY! I suppose that you also meant,
when you said that any engine BURNS oil, that you meant that if it
leaked out of the crankcase, then dripped on the exhaust pipe, that
that was your point?? PLEASE, see a doctor.

No, that's just another of your strawmen for a loosing argument.

Again, valve stem seals. Easily worn out, very common.

You actually believe that ALL the oil, which YOU say is in the cylinder
during the compression stroke, somehow makes it out before the spark?
Just how does it to that? You're digging yourself in deeper and
deeper, and proving just how stupid you are once again, if you say
"worbn valve stem seals" can somehow get all the oil out of the cylinder
between the compression and power stroke.

Again, I've NEVER made such a claim. You are putting words in my mouth
to try and make yourself sound correct. Your grasping straws, man.

Oh, good. So let's see what you did claim: You did claim that oil does
get into the cylinder but that it gets forced out of a slightly burned
exhaust valve during compression.

Wrong, read again, stupid.

Instead of reading again, how about I quote you directly:

"Now, ever hear of a burned exhaust valve? If the rings are worn enough
to allow oil past them, and the exhaust valve is *slightly burned*,
the oil will push out of the valve on any stroke where there is
compression."

So do you now claim that ALL of the
oil makes it out of the cylinder through the slightly burned exhaust
valve, or do you admit that some of the oil which makes it into the
cylinder stays in there after compression and does not make it out of
the slightly burned exhaust valve? It's a simple question with a simple
answer. Here, I'll phrase it as a yes or no to make it even simpler
since we know you can't read:

Hey, idiot, I never made such a claim.

Now that you've been shown you did make such a claim, answer the
question. If the oil gets into the cylinder past the rings, does ALL of
it make it out of the slightly burned exhaust valve? Yes or no?

You've claimed that oil gets into the cylinder and gets forced out
during compression through a slightly burned exhaust valve. Yes or No,
does ALL of the oil that made it into the cylinder also make it out of
the cylinder through the slightly burned exhaust valve during
compression?

Now that we're done examining your one way of losing oil above, let's go
back to the way the technical reference described. Please answer the
question: In what way does an engine lose oil on the cylinder wall
during the power stroke in the combustion process if it isn't burned?

Uh, the OIL ring wipes it? Ya think? Naw, that CAN'T be what the oil
ring is for. Can it?

Bzzzt. Wrong answer. If it's in the cylinder (i.e., above the rings
and piston) as the technical reference says, and it's during the power
stroke (i.e., the rings and piston are moving down) as the technical
reference says, then how is the oil ring going to wipe it away? Sheesh,
you REALLY can't comprehend simple engine mechanics.

Oh, no,buddy. YOU said that the oil gets past the RINGS. I didn't.
Funny little man....

Of course you didn't. Because you don't know sqaut. As the GM
technical reference says, oil DOES get past the rings, it IS in the
cylinder ABOVE the rings as the rings are moving down. So the oil ring
cannot then wipe it away. So again, my question to you is, now that you
know the oil is already above the oil ring and that it cannot wipe it
away because it's moving in the wrong direction, in what way does an
engine lose oil on the cylinder wall during the power stroke in the
combustion process if it isn't burned?

Again, putting words in my mouth. WHERE did I say that the oil came
from the cylinder wall?

YOU didn't say that, you IDIOT. The technical reference from GM said
it. It says that the engine looses oil on the cylinder wall during the
power stroke in the combustion process.

Not sure what that technical reference means. It actually says "the
engine looses oil on the cylinder wall"? Where?

Reference NEVER says that an engine LOOSES oil on the cylinder wall.
Strictly YOUR words.

Wrong again. Wow, how can you be soooo stupid and soooo wrong every
time you say something. My words are the exact words of the reference,
which proves my point. Specifically, that the oil on the cylinder wall
is consumed in the combustion process. Does the problem you're having
with the word LOOSES mean that you don't think oil consumed in the
combustion process is lost? Just what do you think happens to it, it
miraculously reforms into a liquid and makes it's way back into the
crankcase? You really are stupid.

But moving on your reference says, and I quote "This oil is burned each
and every time the cylinder fires." when it's talking about the oil that
gets past the rings and is on the cylinder wall. Notice it says
specifically BURNED.

This has been going on for a month now and it's really rediculous how
stupid you are. I don't believe anyone can actually be as dumb as you,
so you must be just acting stupid for our benefit. You must have
realized you're wrong by now and just can't admit it, so you're acting
stupid to cover for your ineptness. That's the only reasonable answer
for you apparent inability to read and understand plain simple english.

Again, I ask a simple question. If the rings, on a properly broken in
engine seal well enough to keep molecularly small exhaust gases from
getting INTO the crankcase, at a pressure of approx. 100 p.s.i., how
in the HELL does something molecularly larger (oil) make it through
the same rings at a third of the pressure? How?

Because the pressure of the oil against the rings as they are moving
down the cylinder wall is many times greater than 100 psi. And because
oil molecules tend to stick together in a thin film. That's one of the
properties that makes oil a good lubricant. What will really blow your
mind when you think of it is that oil can get past the rings on the
power stroke, where the pressure in the cylinder is much greater than
100 psi. However, the pressure against the rings from the top is
nowhere near as high as the pressure in the cylinder due to the tight
clearance between the piston and the cylinder. If the rings had to face
the full pressure of the combustion gasses in the cylinder (as the would
if there was a lot of space between the piston and cylinder) they could
never do their job of keeping combustion gasses out of the crankcase.
As it is, they only have to seal against the small amount of gasses that
make it between the piston and the cylinder.

Steve