On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:44:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

I know what you're saying Greg. But my thought is that it's possible that it was bad enough but turned REALLY bad before they knew what was happening. Just my uneducated thought.

I suppose bravado goes a long way but I am not sure it would have me
steering into a storm when there was an easy way to avoid it.