"Felsenmeer" wrote in
:



I agree with you. The original poster appears to be "obviously
without any clue and experience." Thus he's not in a position to
judge the difficulties and danger of whatever whitewater he chooses
to paddle. As a result, he's potentially a danger to himself and
anyone else on the river.

Yet everyone chose to ignore the issue of experience and focused on
the boat that he wanted to paddle. I don't recall seeing "if you want
to paddle on whitewater you should take some classes first".


Try running that thought past the whitewater kayaking community and see
what kind of reponse you get...

I've been reading rec.boats.paddle (which despite it's generic name does
have a whitewater focus) and from what I've seen the general consensus
appears to be that taking classes first is a good idea. Just look at any
thread in which a newcomer has asked about how to get into the sport. I
also was involved in the off line discussion which led to the creation of
this newsgroup.

I also go beyond just telling people to take classes. Every winter I teach
first time kayakers in whitewater kayaks the basics (and have taught quite a
few how to roll on their first day) and help teach beginning and
intermediate classes in sea kayaks out of a local shop, purely on a
volunteer basis.

While I agree that even class II water *can* have catastrophic
consequenses (as could tripping and falling head first into a bathtub
full of water) the risks are most likely pretty low. I would guess
that one puts themselves in greater risk driving back and forth to the
river.



I'm not sure the "reductio ad absurdum" argument works here. You could
get hit by a car crossing the street. We've been debating the class II
whitewater issue, but the original poster just said whitewater.

It's not an "reductio ad absurdum" arguement. In terms of risk assessment
paddling on class II whitewater falls in between paddling on a calm pond
and paddling on class IV-V whitewater. Driving back and forth from home and
the river is in there somewhere too. My guess is that the risks of driving
to/from the river are much closer to paddling higher rated rivers than
paddling a Sparky on a calm pond.


Check
around the whitewater messageboards on the internet sometime, and see
what kinds of whitewater people are tubing, floating, etc. You
regularly see posts about kayakers having to rescue Joe Sixpack or his
daughter because they just aired up their Walmart raft and tryed to
float the Chatooga or something. This guy doesn't strike me as any
different; I've seen it too many times.

I fully understand the dangers of paddling and have been reading online
paddling forums for six (at least) years so I've seen most of the incident
reports.

I guarantee you that people are taking their lives in their hands on a
daily basis, trying to treat serious whitewater rivers as a "float
stream."

Define serious whitewater.



The whole discussion is a bit gaga, and I wonder if somebody came
up with an idea to stuff the summer hole in this group by throwing
a stupid idea around


It *is* a bit gaga. If the original poster hadn't responded to some
of the replies, I would have guessed this was all one big troll.

Baloney. Given the huge growth of recreational kayaks in the past few
years it's a valid question that deserves more than a knee jerk
reaction.

It's not a knee jerk reaction. You're right that it's a valid
question. And the answer to that question is: rec boats shouldn't be on
whitewater. Period.

No, that answer is elitist bull****.

They're designed for fla****er, or typical moving
water, not whitewater.

Whitewater kayaks aren't designed for open water paddling either.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever paddled a recreational kayak on a class
II river?


I don't see any difference between suggesting
that it's OK for this guy to paddle whitewater in a boat not designed
for it, or suggesting that it's OK to get out on Tampa Bay wearing a
cotton Tshirt and PFD stowed in your hatch because its a calm day and
the weather forecast is clear. If you're going to be safe, be safe.
Too many people are getting hurt or killed out there because they're
rolling the dice.

or driving a car.

When it comes to assessing risk and determining what is safe and what is not
one has to draw the line somewhere. In my mind, and based on my experience,
the risks involved in paddling a recreational on moving water up to class II
are essentially the same as the risks involved in paddling a "real"
whitewater kayak on moving water up to class II. Where the risk differs is,
IMHO, based more on the skill level of the paddler and specific knowledge of
what the risks are and how best to mitigate them, rather that the craft
being paddled. Flippant responses such as "notify your next of kin" or
banning recreational kayaks from all forms of whitewater serve no redeemable
purpose whatsoever.