On 3/1/15 12:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/1/2015 10:49 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/1/15 9:44 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/1/2015 9:21 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/1/15 8:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/1/2015 7:47 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/1/15 5:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/1/2015 3:24 AM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/28/2015 7:48 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2015 17:03:18 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/28/15 4:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2015 11:31:08 -0800, jps
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 15:58:36 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 14:49:16 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:


Big Bang just a bunch of bunk?

Universe has no beginning?

Maybe it's back to thinking it's made up of ether.
Invisible,
just like modern day descriptions of black holes.

http://www.space.com/28681-theory-no-big-bang.html

This is really an unknowable but the understanding of the
things we
can know is advancing science. At this point "god did it"
is as
provable as the big bang. What was there before the predicted
event
13.8 billion years ago? I do tend to lean towards the closed
universe
theory and after expanding for a while the whole thing will
collapse
back on itself again. That is reconciled with the "bounce"
theory. It
also leaves open the likelihood that there are other systems
beyond
what we call our universe, doing the same thing.

One thing is certain, the more we find out, the more
questions we
bring up and it becomes clearer that there is still more out
there
than we ever suspected before.

Gobsmacked by "god did it" as in any way comparable to bang
and
entropy.

Why do you so easily go over the edge into the intellectual
abyss?

I am simply pointing out that when we have reached the
limits of
our
science, one theory is as valid as another. What do you think
was
here
before the big bang? "Nothing" or even an inert singularity
is as
closed minded as "god did it" Saying the universe is only 13.8
billion
years old is as dumb as saying it is 8000. That would only
refer
to a
few events in an infinitely long history.


When we reach the limits of our science, we try to extend those
limits.
Saying "god did it" is an intellectual cop out


I never said I wanted to stop looking.
You certainly take an offhand comment to the absurd.


When discussing the origins of the universe (if there *is* an
origin)
"god did it" is just as valid as any other theory. The "Big Bang"
theory
is in question because known physics can only account for what
happened sometime after the bang, not before and shortly after and
the
physics contradicts it's self. Even if the Big Bang theory
holds,
the
question remains ... what created the singularity point of
infinite
density and "smallness"?

God?


That's the point. Who knows? "God" (whatever he/she or it is) is
just
as good a guess as anything science can offer so far. I certainly
don't know the answer and nobody else does either ... including
Harry.



Who created your god?


Never said I had one or even believed in one. All I said was that
when
it comes to guessing what the origins of the universe is, "god" is
just
as valid as anything science has to offer ... yet.

The concept of a god serves many people. It provides an answer to
some
to the ultimate unknown and provides many with a sense of peace and
comfort when facing adversities and death. It's amazing to me how
people who were never particularly religious in their lives develop an
acceptance of a god when in their final, lucid hours of life.

I only get religious when flying commercially.








No, it isn't. Science, at least, is striving for answers, coming up
with
theories, some plausable, some less so, to find the answers. Claiming
that god did it is simply giving up on the ultimate ability of
humans to
find those answers.

The "modern" concept of god really isn't much different than stone age
mans'...that there is some sort of entity "out there" (a rock, a tree,
the sun, a statue, a being who made man in his image, et cetera),
who is
somehow responsible for "the big stuff," such as the sun rising in the
morning. After a few thousand years of evolution, man knew enough to
realize that solar/planetary motions were the result of physics, and
not
the product of a god's whim or will.

Once again, to claim there is a god/creator is an intellectual cop-out.
We may not have the answer yet, but intelligent men and women are
trying
to find it. We should insist that "god did it" and give up the search?

Which god is that? Ra? A tree? Michelangelo's god?

There isn't the slightest evidence of the existence of god. Nada, zip,
zilch. But, hey, if people want to believe otherwise, why not?



There's a lot about the universe that we have learned since the caveman
days but we are no closer to understanding how it all began than we did
when we were dragging our wives back to the cave by their hair.

A religious based explanation remains just as valid as any unproven
scientific theory.

Note: I am referring to the *origins* of the universe ... not the fact
that mankind determined the earth isn't flat or the make-up of our or
other solar systems and galaxies.

The concept that the universe simply always existed is beyond our feeble
minds to comprehend. We may accept the words as an explanation but we
can't grasp what it means. Sorta like believing in a god.





It's an easy enough concept to grasp. The universe always existed. OK. I
don't know if that is the answer, but if it is, it is acceptable.

Meanwhile, where is an iota of proof for the existence of god?

Is it hiding under the snow on your horse farm?



The concept and the words are easy to understand and accept. Explain
how something "always" existed though and you'll be famous.

As for "proof" for the existence of god ... those with faith require no
proof.


Well, of course. But that's all that those "with faith" have...faith.
There's nothing more.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.