John Fereira ) writes:

Both CLC and Pygmy offer a line of designs that one can build either from
computer cut panels or from a set of plans and cut the panels according to

I didn't claim either company sold custom plans or kits. I only wrote that
it's possible to do cheaply becuase all that has to be done is to change a
few numbers in the design program and the computer cuts out the new boat
panels or station mould patterns. Plywood and stripper kayaks could be
custom made just like you buy a custom tailored business suit, but at
minimal extra cost.

Even for the standard models, while the plans + materials or a kit costs
less than a similarly designed composite boat, when one adds in the cost of
tools necessary to build it, extras like varnish, and the cost of labor, I'm
not sure that in the end one will save "a lot of money".

you save approx 1/3 off the cost of a stripper boat by building yourself.
that's why so many people do it. that's why Ted Moores is so popular.

For many, the most efficient hull for flat out forward speed performance
might not be desirable.

please show me where I claimed speed vs horsepower was the sole reason for
choosing a kayak. I do think speed is the principle reason people choose
kayaks over other boats like canoes and punts and for that reason I think
buyers should be presented with the information on how fast their kayak is
designed to go with different levels of effort.

If paddlers were only concerned about paddling at a high speed for long
distances you might have a point, but paddling is much more than that.

the point of this discussion about hull resistance and horsepower
requirement is how much more effort a person has to exert to keep up with
a group of paddlers. I don't know about paddling at high speed, just the
speed the gropup is paddling at. If you don't want to be exhausted at the
end of a day of paddling in a group then the power you have to put out to
maintain the group speed is the most important factor.

While there are some that will buy a kayak based on the stats or brochure
(and the appearance of the boat), pretty much every paddler with experience
will recommend that one actually sit in a paddle a boat before buying it.
It doesn't take a brochure to tell me that a boat is too small if the
cockpit is so tight that it cuts off circulation to my legs.

sadly, yes, that's how it is done now. but it doesn't have to be done that
way. last summer I was told by a couple of kayak fanatics in this very
newsgroup that it was wrong to choose a kayak based on how it felt and
that after one or two seasons such people are eager to buy the kayak they
should have bought in the first place. if sellers provided the design
range for paddler weight and dimensions potential buyers could quickly
narrow down the kayaks to the ones most suitable and they could choose
from among those kayaks. you may be aware of how igorant kayak sales staff
are. they are happy just to sell the kayak and cannot provide much in the
way of help to the buyer. buyers would be better off with relevant design
information.

That question is typically asked by people that have very little experience
in kayaks, and is often accompanied with little addtional data that would
help answer the question. I've answered the question many times, and
usually recommended several models with the suggestion to try as many as
possible and decide for themselves what kayak is right for them.

how many kayak buyers do you think are people with "very little experience
in kayks"? 80%? 90%? 95% people do generally know what they weigh and how
tall they are. people can take their own body measurements just like
people who buy skis and bicycles do. there are people who lurk in this
newsgroup who will say that telling people who have very littel expericne
to try kayaks for themselves in not good adivce. I tend to agree compared
to what they could do with more design information.

Kayaks and canoes cost more than bikes, skis,
and skateboards.


I don't know what a skateboard costs but it's certainly possible to spend
more a bicycle or snow skis than on a kayak.


if its possible it's out at the exteme end of the price range. compare
averages instead.

Here's an analogy. I chose my last two new automobiles by doing reasearch
at the public library and then went out and bought them. I've been driving
the most recent one for 15 years hope to keep driving it for years to
come. I understand that people buying automobiles today have even more
information available off the Interent than I had. However buying a new
automobile by going a dealership for a test drive is the worst possible
way of buyiung a new automobile that I can think of. Kayaks don't have the
volume and interest of automobiles but a better job can be done at no
extra cost providing relevant information for kayak buyers, information
which is paddler-oriented rather than boat oriented. Kayak sellers would
better serve their customers by concentrating more on the paddler and less
on the boat. that's why I suggest making power requriements, body weight,
and body size design information available to buyers. I'd certainly
provide horsepower rather than total hull resistance.


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