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Questions from a newbie
Hello
I'm new to newsgroups (so hopefully haven't made a pig's ear of it!) and new to kayaking. What I'd like to know is as a 35 year old beginner, are my chances of becoming a great paddler less now than if I'd started as a child or does age not enter the equation? I know I'm not old but I seem to be the eldest novice in my local club, lol. Also, as a complete "Humbug" I was wondering if any instructors out there would be willing to give me lessons over the Christmas break. I live in Southampton, and am yearning to get out of the pool and onto a river. I'm trying to boycott Xmas this year and can't think of a better way to spend it : ) TIA Liz. |
Questions from a newbie
"Liz" wrote in message om... Hello I'm new to newsgroups (so hopefully haven't made a pig's ear of it!) and new to kayaking. What I'd like to know is as a 35 year old beginner, are my chances of becoming a great paddler less now than if I'd started as a child or does age not enter the equation? I know I'm not old but I seem to be the eldest novice in my local club, lol. Also, as a complete "Humbug" I was wondering if any instructors out there would be willing to give me lessons over the Christmas break. I live in Southampton, and am yearning to get out of the pool and onto a river. I'm trying to boycott Xmas this year and can't think of a better way to spend it : ) Age does come into it, as it does for any sport... As my doctor put it, "As you grow older you have to train for your sport, rather than using your sport to train". I am similar aged to you, and now I find I need to do some work in the gym to keep up paddling fitness. But there is no reason not to start now. I regularly coach people older than myself. We get the right results. Just go for it! I think the oldest person I have taught was 65, and we got him rolling. Southampton... sorry... too far away :-( A friendly word of advice... at this time of year... get some decent paddling wear... (shiver) Happy paddling! Peter -- -- Add "bypass" to subject line to email this address. All others rejected. |
Questions from a newbie
"Liz" wrote in message om... Hello I'm new to newsgroups (so hopefully haven't made a pig's ear of it!) and new to kayaking. What I'd like to know is as a 35 year old beginner, are my chances of becoming a great paddler less now than if I'd started as a child or does age not enter the equation? I know I'm not old but I seem to be the eldest novice in my local club, lol. Also, as a complete "Humbug" I was wondering if any instructors out there would be willing to give me lessons over the Christmas break. I live in Southampton, and am yearning to get out of the pool and onto a river. I'm trying to boycott Xmas this year and can't think of a better way to spend it : ) TIA Liz. Hi Liz yes age does make a difference I started at 36 3 years ago and still having problems with thinks like rolling The club that I go to has a 15 year old female how has been Kayaking for 2 years and last month she rolled 115 time non stop in fact she could of done more but the water was getting to shallow Neil --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release Date: 10/11/2003 |
Questions from a newbie
Liz wrote:
Hello I'm new to newsgroups (so hopefully haven't made a pig's ear of it!) and new to kayaking. What I'd like to know is as a 35 year old beginner, are my chances of becoming a great paddler less now than if I'd started as a child or does age not enter the equation? I know I'm not old but I seem to be the eldest novice in my local club, lol. Also, as a complete "Humbug" I was wondering if any instructors out there would be willing to give me lessons over the Christmas break. I live in Southampton, and am yearning to get out of the pool and onto a river. I'm trying to boycott Xmas this year and can't think of a better way to spend it : ) TIA Liz. Hi Liz, Well its unlikely you're going to make a world class freestyle paddler... but it doesn't mean you won't be running grade 4 in 2 years. In our club, we've got a few members who started paddling around the 40ish mark. I would say that all who started within the last 3 years (with the exception of one or two maybe) have developed a good roll on one side and paddled grade 2 with confidence within 6 months of joining. One or two have even managed a trip to the alps in their first year. At your age, you should be able to achieve what you want... just don't let the speed that the little buggers in your club pick things up. Kids learn really fast and almost effortlessly..., whereas we've got to keep plugging away. If you want to travel to south Wales, e.mail me and I'll arrange for a few of us (adults only) to go out for the day. Have fun, Steve (Amman Valley Paddlers) |
Questions from a newbie
Liz wrote:
I'm new to newsgroups (so hopefully haven't made a pig's ear of it!) No... and new to kayaking. What I'd like to know is as a 35 year old beginner, are my chances of becoming a great paddler less now than if I'd started as a child or does age not enter the equation? Your chances of becoming "great" are certainly less. But as long as you become great *enough* to get something out of it, does that really matter? In kayaking, as any other sport, the great majority of the participants are not "great" at it. I'm not-great at a lot of sports (kayaking (surf, river and sea) included), but participate in and enjoy many of them. not old but I seem to be the eldest novice in my local club, lol. You'd be about par for the course in Tayside Sea Kayak. We've had retired folk come along to take it up. Also, as a complete "Humbug" I was wondering if any instructors out there would be willing to give me lessons over the Christmas break. I live in Southampton, and am yearning to get out of the pool and onto a river. I'm trying to boycott Xmas this year and can't think of a better way to spend it : ) Surfing! ;-) Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
Questions from a newbie
In message , Liz
writes Hello I'm new to newsgroups (so hopefully haven't made a pig's ear of it!) and new to kayaking. What I'd like to know is as a 35 year old beginner, are my chances of becoming a great paddler less now than if I'd started as a child or does age not enter the equation? I know I'm not old but I seem to be the eldest novice in my local club, lol. Also, as a complete "Humbug" I was wondering if any instructors out there would be willing to give me lessons over the Christmas break. I live in Southampton, and am yearning to get out of the pool and onto a river. I'm trying to boycott Xmas this year and can't think of a better way to spend it : ) TIA Liz. which club are you with? there are several round Southampton - most will have some suitable trip going on over Christmas at some point I would have thought. Many clubs are happy to take 'drop ins' for these sort of trips if you ask. The main issue is having suitable kit to keep you warm . If you haven't paddled outside the pool them you probably don't need lessons - just a bit of time on the water to sort out going strait - not as easy as it sounds on a windy river! Richard -- Dr Richard Seaby PISCES Conservation Ltd IRC House, The Square Pennington, Lymington Hants, SO41 8GN Tel +44 (0)1590 676622/674000 Fax +44 (0)1590 675599 www.irchouse.demon.co.uk www.pisces-conservation.com www.powerstationeffects.co.uk www.amazonian-fish.co.uk |
Questions from a newbie
The club that I go to has a 15 year old female how has been Kayaking for 2 years and last month she rolled 115 time non stop in fact she could of done more but the water was getting to shallow Why? was she drinking it? -- -- Add "bypass" to subject line to email this address. All others rejected. |
Questions from a newbie
Hi Liz yes age does make a difference I started at 36 3 years ago and still having problems with thinks like rolling You thinks too much.... rolling is feeling not thinking ;-) I don't think this is totally an age issue... we have people who can roll at 36+ and find it easy, and we have younger people who find it impossible. Age comes in because people get stiffer, but if you are taught good technique, you should be able to roll. I have seen a paraplegic lady being taught to roll... a hipflick free roll. It's interesting to see how she does it. Peter |
Questions from a newbie
Peter wrote:
Age comes in because people get stiffer, but if you are taught good technique, you should be able to roll. I have seen a paraplegic lady being taught to roll... a hipflick free roll. It's interesting to see how she does it. A pawlata roll is quite easy to do without a hip-flick. In fact that's one of the nice things about it: less co-ordination required and you're using leverage rather than brute power so are less likely to do a naughty to a shoulder too. Not great if you're in a Big Hurry, but more likely to work if you're not. Our club starts folk off on pawlatas and then progresses to screws after that's fairly bombproof. Must say I'm not getting very far with reverse screws at the moment: back to that "which way is up? what do I do now? what am I doing here?" feeling I had first time I was trying pawlatas unassisted! Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
Questions from a newbie
"Peter Clinch" wrote in message ... Peter wrote: A pawlata roll is quite easy to do without a hip-flick. In fact that's one of the nice things about it: less co-ordination required and you're using leverage rather than brute power so are less likely to do a naughty to a shoulder too. Not great if you're in a Big Hurry, but more likely to work if you're not. Our club starts folk off on pawlatas and then progresses to screws after that's fairly bombproof. Must say I'm not getting very far with reverse screws at the moment: back to that "which way is up? what do I do now? what am I doing here?" feeling I had first time I was trying pawlatas unassisted! It is interesting that you teach pawlata first.... I don't anymore for the reason that people seem to rely on the leverage, and that turns into brute force with the screw roll. I prefer to teach a non-brute force method of doing the screw roll, which protects the shoulders etc. Since I changed to this way of teaching, my success at getting people to roll has rocketed... the most impressive "victim" went from not started rolling to rolling in 15 minutes. She of course was an exception, but we seem to get most people going in a few pool sessions. Reverse Screw: the thing I did wrong for ages is I was pulling the blade down in the water, rather than sweeping it out. This gave me a reverse roll, but quite a weak one. Sweeping it round, and bingo... a much better, safer roll. I still don't like back deck types of rolls, but they definitely have their uses. Peter -- -- Add "bypass" to subject line to email this address. All others rejected. |
Questions from a newbie
Liz wrote:
Hello I'm new to newsgroups (so hopefully haven't made a pig's ear of it!) It's refreshing to see someone realise they can post something worth reading first time round, especially as this group is in need of more positive input :-) and new to kayaking. What I'd like to know is as a 35 year old beginner, are my chances of becoming a great paddler less now than if I'd started as a child or does age not enter the equation? I know I'm not old but I seem to be the eldest novice in my local club, lol. My Dad must have been in his mid 50's when we tricked him into starting to paddle. He has no ambitions beyond grade 3 but I'm sure there is plenty of grade 4 he could be running (convincing him to come paddling with us is more tricky). He is a level 2 coach and spends a lot of time coaching, fla****er paddling and on easier grade stuff - I would say he paddles more than me if not as hard! He also likes sea kayaking - which is a wonderful leveller, endurance being worth more than speed, where the youngsters can find themselves disadvantaged compared to older paddlers! I wouldn't class him as a great paddler but he gets absolutely everything he wants and possibly more out of the sport, and you are 20 odd years younger, so no worries! Sure the human body deteriorates and as we age we might need to build in extra exercise (or get out more often on fla****er) to maintain it for the sport but the governing factor really isn't age, it's enthusiasm and determination! Also, as a complete "Humbug" I was wondering if any instructors out there would be willing to give me lessons over the Christmas break. I live in Southampton, and am yearning to get out of the pool and onto a river. I'm trying to boycott Xmas this year and can't think of a better way to spend it : ) I'm too far away to know specifics for your area, but most paddling in the UK is done over the winter - people will be running rivers over the xmas break, although these might be trips for the more experienced. Obviously there are different ways things can run - there is club style training for free, and there is commercial training for a price - if you are interested in the latter I would say get in touch with kayakojacko.com and see if they will be running anything over the break. If all else fails I'm sure they will be spending time on the weirs so if you are at a stage to try playboating that might help. Most clubs arrange some kind of trip over the xmas/new year period, some go away for the period, others have a local run they always do - these things vary in difficulty but there is bound to be someone doing something at your level from your area. Personally I'll be in the highlands waiting for a warm, wet spell to make the hard rivers/burns runnable! Good luck, there are a lot of fanatical paddlers who would paddle rather than do xmas if they could get away with it, you just have to track down ones that can! Which reminds me of a xmas eve spent on the Tees white water course with my Dad, brother and a friend - at one point 2 other people appeared....... a nice quiet day out! JIM |
Questions from a newbie
Peter wrote:
It is interesting that you teach pawlata first.... I don't anymore for the reason that people seem to rely on the leverage, and that turns into brute force with the screw roll. Makes sense, as that's what I did... Some people have learned starting with a float assisted hand roll, which really helps tune the hip flick first thing. OTOH it can be a bit dispiriting at first as it's harder, and in my case the last time I tried I put my back out and needed two visits to the osteopath so I'm not personally that keen on practising that! OTOH I'm not really clued enough to teach anything else, and will usually only try to teach when I'm all that's available there and then. Will try an emphasize a good pawlata with prominent hip flick before moving onto screws in future though! Reverse Screw: the thing I did wrong for ages is I was pulling the blade down in the water, rather than sweeping it out. Having set up and flipped the boat I just couldn't decide what I was meant to be doing *at all*. It wasn't doing the wrong thing, just going "errrrrrrrrr?", resetting for a P and coming up that way instead! Down rather than Out seems to be a common problem for a lot of people doing any sweeping roll though, AFAICT from our pool sessions. roll. I still don't like back deck types of rolls, but they definitely have their uses. I was just curious really. Main project now is getting screws on my "bad side" just as good as the other and at a point where "default roll" is the best side in any given situation, rather than current right shoulder forwards side. Also working so that any degree of feather or different control hands aren't a problem (often paddle unfeathered on the sea if there's no headwind, if there is I sometimes swap control side thanks to a variable joint shaft and blades that plug into either end). Slowly getting there... Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
Questions from a newbie
"...If you want to travel to south Wales, e.mail me and I'll arrange
for a few of us (adults only) to go out for the day. Have fun, Steve (Amman Valley Paddlers)" Thanks for the offer Steve. South Wales is a bit further than I was planning to travel (although it is a beautiful place), but I'll bear you in mind : ). Where do you paddle? I went out on the Wye in a 2 man canoe back in September and had a great time. I plan to go on an abseil day there in February, and hopefully will be able to organize some kayaking the day before (to make a weekend of it and therefore justify the travelling!) Liz. |
Questions from a newbie
Richard Seaby wrote in message ...
which club are you with? there are several round Southampton - most will have some suitable trip going on over Christmas at some point I would have thought. Many clubs are happy to take 'drop ins' for these sort of trips if you ask. The main issue is having suitable kit to keep you warm . If you haven't paddled outside the pool them you probably don't need lessons - just a bit of time on the water to sort out going strait - not as easy as it sounds on a windy river! Richard Hello Richard Good thinking! I'll ask the local clubs if there are any "humbugs" who would rather paddle than sit in front of the TV watching Christmas dross : ) I haven't formally joined a club yet but have had a couple of lessons thanks to Salisbury CC and shall be checking out Ringwood CC tomorrow. Do you paddle with a local club? Do they accept novices? I think you may be right about just needing a bit of time on the water to practice. The pool isn't big enough to get into the swing of it and learn paddling in a straight line to any degree. The kit issue is a bit of a problem...oh well, I'll just have to go shopping I suppose : ) Liz. |
Questions from a newbie
Peter Clinch wrote in message ...
"...I'm trying to boycott Xmas this year and can't think of a better way to spend it : )" Surfing! ;-) Pete. Oh yeah, Xmas surfing would be fun too, although I find it very difficult and very tiring. Or abseiling down a gorge - fun in a masochistic sort of way! LOL. Liz. |
Questions from a newbie
Kayaking is great for paraplegics but a word of caution. We had a lass at
the club - game as anything. We weren't at the rolling stage but we went paddling on the local canal with her in a Kiwi. Had great fun on the weir - it is safe to shoot at the right levels. We improvised a block and tackle with safety lines so that she could shoot it four or five times. Great fun had by all. The following week she broke her thigh bone when rolling over sunbathing in her back garden........ Lots of blood lost, ambulances, transfusions etc. Gave me a pause for thought. They get very osteoporotic because of not weight bearing on the limbs. David |
Questions from a newbie
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:19:49 +0000, Peter Clinch
wrote: Peter wrote: It is interesting that you teach pawlata first.... I don't anymore for the reason that people seem to rely on the leverage, and that turns into brute force with the screw roll. Makes sense, as that's what I did... Some people have learned starting with a float assisted hand roll, which really helps tune the hip flick first thing. OTOH it can be a bit dispiriting at first as it's harder, and in my case the last time I tried I put my back out and needed two visits to the osteopath so I'm not personally that keen on practising that! OTOH I'm not really clued enough to teach anything else, and will usually only try to teach when I'm all that's available there and then. Will try an emphasize a good pawlata with prominent hip flick before moving onto screws in future though! Reverse Screw: the thing I did wrong for ages is I was pulling the blade down in the water, rather than sweeping it out. Having set up and flipped the boat I just couldn't decide what I was meant to be doing *at all*. It wasn't doing the wrong thing, just going "errrrrrrrrr?", resetting for a P and coming up that way instead! Down rather than Out seems to be a common problem for a lot of people doing any sweeping roll though, AFAICT from our pool sessions. roll. I still don't like back deck types of rolls, but they definitely have their uses. I was just curious really. Main project now is getting screws on my "bad side" just as good as the other and at a point where "default roll" is the best side in any given situation, rather than current right shoulder forwards side. Also working so that any degree of feather or different control hands aren't a problem (often paddle unfeathered on the sea if there's no headwind, if there is I sometimes swap control side thanks to a variable joint shaft and blades that plug into either end). Slowly getting there... Not quite age related but on the subject of teaching rolls... There we were, four adult Coaches teaching " Star/ 3 Star to roll. By chance we had an extra non-paddler in the pool. First time in a kayak. My son, not then a coach and still only 17 taught this lad to roll in five minutes. He couldn't paddle in a straight line, but boy could he roll.... Ewan Scott http://www.claytonwestscouts.org.uk |
Questions from a newbie
There we were, four adult Coaches teaching " Star/ 3 Star to roll. By chance we had an extra non-paddler in the pool. First time in a kayak. My son, not then a coach and still only 17 taught this lad to roll in five minutes. He couldn't paddle in a straight line, but boy could he roll.... Ewan Scott http://www.claytonwestscouts.org.uk That relates to my experiences... The easiest people to teach rolling to are the ones with no preconception of what should be happening. The rest.... I try to take their minds off the rolling by shouting something bizarre as they capsize.... "think chocolate" seems to work quite well... they seem to roll up thinking what the hell was the coach on about... result. P -- -- Add "bypass" to subject line to email this address. All others rejected. |
Questions from a newbie
I was going to stay out of this as I don't coach anymore, but:
I have found that teaching the screw roll is more effective in the past because: It relies on technique, you can't bypass with brute force (well it's a lot harder to anyway) You don't need to change your hand position so with ovalled looms you can feel if the paddle is oriented properly The need to move hands makes the pawlata a poor choice for river running and I used to coach specifically towards river running I always found it just as fast to teach and there is no need to relearn from pawlata to screw roll (because most people don't use full techinique with a pawlata) I have a feeling Peter Clinch is mainly involved with sea kayaking, where the paddler is usually less vulnerable and can take their time setting up for a Pawlata, so I didn't feel it necessary to convert him to the screw roll cause :) Guiding the paddle (and making sure the pupil understands that they shouldn't need to use a lot of force against your support) can be a very good way to introduce the technique as opposed to brute force, because you prevent it going down and sweep it out they should get the feel for the idea that round rather than down is the secret. As for reverse screw rolling my tips a Lay back and bring the wrist of your rolling hand to your forehead with the blade face pointing forward (similar to bow rudder position). Before you capsize, rotate from your waist towards the side the paddle is on - chances are you will capsize as you do this. Once upside down, take a moment and make sure you have rotated as far as you can in this direction, your head should be turned in the paddle direction and your cheek will be near the surface Keep your wrist against your forehead Sit up in the boat, but keep the paddle on the surface as you do so. To do this you need to untwist from your waist - the key is to open your eyes and make sure your cheek is still just below the surface as you do this - keeping that wrist against your head. The act of sitting up will both sweep the paddle and give you most of the hip-flick you require at the right time, you will be sitting slightly forward at the point where you need to let the wrist wander from the forehead for the final pull/flick. If you find you need to do a foreward sweep at this point, do it! A reverse roll with a forward sweep at the end is still faster and in many cases safer than a forward roll, anyone that tells you you HAVE to get rid of the forward sweep is talking out of their backside. Obviously if you can master finishing fully forward ready to do a power stroke you will get a major advantage on whitewater, but a safe reliable roll is the most important thing to worry about. YES, I will always maintain that reverse screw rolling is safer - anyone arguing against it does it very differently and probably with less success. If you reread my tips, you fill find that your head is very close to the surface and your face is sideways to upwards so very much less vulnerable than forward. If you lock the wrist against your forehead, you would have to rip your head off before you could hyperextend your shoulder and dislocate it. JIM |
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