Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Loaned out my Coleman B Model canoe, purchased in 1979. Guess what -
wrecked. Need a Keelson, Center thwart and Gunwale for left side.

Unfortunately, Coleman sold the div to Pelican who no longer have or
stock parts.

Do any of you know where I can still get replacement parts for this
conoe????????

Thanks

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

"FrogontheLog" wrote in message
oups.com...
Loaned out my Coleman B Model canoe, purchased in 1979. Guess what -
wrecked. Need a Keelson, Center thwart and Gunwale for left side.

Unfortunately, Coleman sold the div to Pelican who no longer have or
stock parts.

Do any of you know where I can still get replacement parts for this
conoe????????

Thanks


Umm, why bother? Coleman boats are notorious for being of low quality, and
your 1979 model is certainly beyond its life expectancy anyway. You could
use this opportunity to replace it with a boat from a more reputable
manufacturer, and get something of quality. Old Town, Mad River, Lincoln and
others have boats in a competitive price range to Coleman, and they will
last much longer. In fact, it's quite possible that an OT Discovery 16'
would not have wrapped in the same situation that destroyed your Coleman, as
the OT hulls are much more rigid and slippery.

--riverman

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Here are some reasons to repair:
First - hopefully the cost of repair, which would be very simple,
should be less, and the boat would be good as new. The ramx material
returned to its original shape just fine.
Second - where do you get rid of a half good canoe? and Why would you
want to throw out something that is fixable?

Then upon purchasing another canoe, I would have an extra for even more
fun!



riverman wrote:
"FrogontheLog" wrote in message
oups.com...
Loaned out my Coleman B Model canoe, purchased in 1979. Guess what -
wrecked. Need a Keelson, Center thwart and Gunwale for left side.

Unfortunately, Coleman sold the div to Pelican who no longer have or
stock parts.

Do any of you know where I can still get replacement parts for this
conoe????????

Thanks


Umm, why bother? Coleman boats are notorious for being of low quality, and
your 1979 model is certainly beyond its life expectancy anyway. You could
use this opportunity to replace it with a boat from a more reputable
manufacturer, and get something of quality. Old Town, Mad River, Lincoln and
others have boats in a competitive price range to Coleman, and they will
last much longer. In fact, it's quite possible that an OT Discovery 16'
would not have wrapped in the same situation that destroyed your Coleman, as
the OT hulls are much more rigid and slippery.

--riverman

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Bluntly, you're making an unwarranted assumption. When Coleman owned it,
they had a repair kit available for the RAM-X. It was ultimately taken off
the market and they themselves admitted it didn't work. So far as I know
nothing has worked effectively on Ram-X to where someone could trust it
again.
The aluminum alloy in the internal supports is an odd mix. If you try to
straighten it out it doesn't come back to anything near its original
strength is is prone to snapping at the crease marks. Again, not safe.
This sort of exchange has come up on this newsgroup before, and for the most
part, the sentiments expressed are very similar. These boats were intended
for very casual use, say paddling 100 yds out from the dock to do some
fishing then back to it. Not much more. Their prices at the time were
good, and less than most canoes. There was a reason. A serious paddler who
would use it heavily wouldn't be interested. For the casual user, it was a
good deal. That lower price, though, had a hidden cost -- the boat isn't
truly repairable and had a finite lifespan.
If it's not fixable, then it's a waste of a lot of money to attempt it, or
it's zero. Good as new? not likely. Safe? I wouldn't trust it for more
than what's mentioned above. I'm sorry but other than that, they do make
good planters....
If you have become a bit more interested in paddling, you will also find a
world of difference in performance, less effort, ability to move a boat
fairly precisely, etc. in the other brands mentioned in other messages...

Joe P.
*************************

"FrogontheLog" wrote in message
ups.com...
Here are some reasons to repair:
First - hopefully the cost of repair, which would be very simple,
should be less, and the boat would be good as new. The ramx material
returned to its original shape just fine.
Second - where do you get rid of a half good canoe? and Why would you
want to throw out something that is fixable?

Then upon purchasing another canoe, I would have an extra for even more
fun!



riverman wrote:
"FrogontheLog" wrote in message
oups.com...
Loaned out my Coleman B Model canoe, purchased in 1979. Guess what -
wrecked. Need a Keelson, Center thwart and Gunwale for left side.

Unfortunately, Coleman sold the div to Pelican who no longer have or
stock parts.

Do any of you know where I can still get replacement parts for this
conoe????????

Thanks


Umm, why bother? Coleman boats are notorious for being of low quality,
and
your 1979 model is certainly beyond its life expectancy anyway. You
could
use this opportunity to replace it with a boat from a more reputable
manufacturer, and get something of quality. Old Town, Mad River, Lincoln
and
others have boats in a competitive price range to Coleman, and they will
last much longer. In fact, it's quite possible that an OT Discovery 16'
would not have wrapped in the same situation that destroyed your
Coleman, as
the OT hulls are much more rigid and slippery.

--riverman

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Froggy, if you have even a modicum of shop skills you should be able to
fabricate a replacement keelson and center thwart for next to nothing.
Just size some thick-walled electrical conduit for the keelson, and use
amything you want for the thwart.

That's the easy part.

The hard part is going to be the gunwale replacement. I'll take you
at your word that Coleman parts are not available. If one gunwale is
unsalvageable you'll need to find something to take its place. The
poly construction of Coleman RamX boats was so floppy that they
absolutely needed both the keelson and strut framework and the those
beefy aluminum gunwales to help maintain their shape.

That being the case I'd suggest that the replacement needs to be a
relatively beefy aluminuim gunwale. Two if you want the gunwales to
match for esthetic reasons (Coleman...esthetics...I guess just one
replacement gunwale will do eh)

Replacement gunwales aren't cheap - think $100+ for a pair. And
they are even more expensive to have shipped (unless they come in with
a load of boats from a manufacturer).

Best case scenario you have a canoe manufacturer (who uses beefy
aluminum gunwales) somewhere within driving distance. Drive out, pick
up the gunwale(s), drive back. Drill out the busted original gunwale.
Remove the strut work and bent keelson. Buy the appropriate conduit and
thwart replacement. Reassemble the canoe and you still have a
crappyclunkyColeman.

Let's add it up (just the cost, not your time and effort):

Gas - $20, gunwale - $60, conduit and other parts, $15.

Hmmmm $95? For another $5 you could just buy a use Coleman RamX from a
Pennysaver ad.

Seriously, it's only worth fixing this junker if you have time,
skills, patience and access to reasonable priced materials. And even
then it's awfully close to polishing a turd.

FrogontheLog wrote:
Here are some reasons to repair:
First - hopefully the cost of repair, which would be very simple,
should be less, and the boat would be good as new. The ramx material
returned to its original shape just fine.
Second - where do you get rid of a half good canoe? and Why would you
want to throw out something that is fixable?

Then upon purchasing another canoe, I would have an extra for even more
fun!



riverman wrote:
"FrogontheLog" wrote in message
oups.com...
Loaned out my Coleman B Model canoe, purchased in 1979. Guess what -
wrecked. Need a Keelson, Center thwart and Gunwale for left side.

Unfortunately, Coleman sold the div to Pelican who no longer have or
stock parts.

Do any of you know where I can still get replacement parts for this
conoe????????

Thanks


Umm, why bother? Coleman boats are notorious for being of low quality, and
your 1979 model is certainly beyond its life expectancy anyway. You could
use this opportunity to replace it with a boat from a more reputable
manufacturer, and get something of quality. Old Town, Mad River, Lincoln and
others have boats in a competitive price range to Coleman, and they will
last much longer. In fact, it's quite possible that an OT Discovery 16'
would not have wrapped in the same situation that destroyed your Coleman, as
the OT hulls are much more rigid and slippery.

--riverman

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Michael Daly wrote:
wrote:

That being the case I'd suggest that the replacement needs to be a
relatively beefy aluminuim gunwale.

Wood gunwales will be stiffer and lighter than aluminum. You can make them from
scratch, whereas aluminum has to be extruded to shape.

As I recall the aluminum gunwales on older Colemans were not like the
sleek aluminum gunwales on higher-end modern canoes, they were more
akin to the bumper of a '57 Chevy. Thick, massive and clunky - I
think you would need a really big wood gunwale to match that strength.

But it's a good suggestion - instead of paying the cost of a single
replacement gunwale it would be cheaper to replace both of them with
wood.

I'm thinking a two 16 foot pressure treated boards, each ripped
lengthwise to form a massive inwale and outwale and then screwed
together with decking screws.

It would be inexpensive, easy and quick, and the parts are available at
any Home Depot or Lowes - it's a '79 Coleman; spending more than
$25 or 25 minutes on repairs is a waste of time and money.

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Michael Daly wrote:
I know those old canoes - but wood is stiffer than aluminum in bending, pound
for pound. I'm pretty sure that stiffness is more important than strength in
those Colemans - the plastic hull is so flexible that it relies on the frame and
gunwale to keep its shape.

I think a slightly heavier than average version of a canoe gunwale would do.
Hardwood would be best. In fact, two strips - one inside. one out - screwed
through the hull at regular intervals would probably be easier and better than
one big hunk of wood. It would also be easier to bend to the shape of the canoe.

Mike
Inwale and outwale screwed together is what I was suggesting, although
I was joking about using pressure treated 2x4's.

Or at least partially joking - I was serious about a wrapped '79
Coleman not being worth spending more than $25 or 25 minutes fixing.
Used Colemans are fairly common in the $100 range.

The cost of new wood gunwales is undoubtedly out of the question
($150++). And finding 16' lengths of decent hardwood is hard enough,
at least where I live. And pricy to boot.

Even if something like 16' lengths of halfround hardwood trim were
used it'll still need several coats of oil or varnish and then time
and materials to screw the inwale and outwale together.

If you can pick up a similar used canoe for $100, or even $150 how much
money, time and effort is it worth to bandage up a 27 year old model
that's been wrapped?

T + E + $ (Time plus Effort plus Money), all to polish a turd..

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

On one my local creeks, there are two wrapped beyond repair
Cloeman's....I'll look to see if there are any salvagable parts. Why do
people even yake these things onto flodded creeks? Never mind, I know the
answer. lol


"FrogontheLog" wrote in message
oups.com...
Loaned out my Coleman B Model canoe, purchased in 1979. Guess what -
wrecked. Need a Keelson, Center thwart and Gunwale for left side.

Unfortunately, Coleman sold the div to Pelican who no longer have or
stock parts.

Do any of you know where I can still get replacement parts for this
conoe????????

Thanks

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

"Grip" wrote in message
...
On one my local creeks, there are two wrapped beyond repair
Cloeman's....I'll look to see if there are any salvagable parts. Why do
people even yake these things onto flodded creeks? Never mind, I know the
answer. lol



It would be a cloed day in hell before I yook one of them on a flodded
creek, I tell ya!

:-)
--riverman

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Then again, perhaps they were trying to "rake" them onto a flooded creek?



"riverman" wrote in message ...

"Grip" wrote in message
...
On one my local creeks, there are two wrapped beyond repair
Cloeman's....I'll look to see if there are any salvagable parts. Why do
people even yake these things onto flodded creeks? Never mind, I know
the
answer. lol



It would be a cloed day in hell before I yook one of them on a flodded
creek, I tell ya!

:-)
--riverman

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:01:49 +0800, "riverman"
wrote:


"Grip" wrote in message
...
On one my local creeks, there are two wrapped beyond repair
Cloeman's....I'll look to see if there are any salvagable parts. Why do
people even yake these things onto flodded creeks? Never mind, I know the
answer. lol



It would be a cloed day in hell before I yook one of them on a flodded
creek, I tell ya!

I've seen one used on Class III water by a couple of crazy country
guys. They were on their second Coleman, the first having wrapped and
then been stolen. They did fine and the canoe held up through the
three sets of rapids I watched them take. Their first Coleman had
lasted them years of fun. It's not something I'd ever recommend to
anyone, though.

But Colemans are perfectly adequate for fla****er lake and river
paddling. They won't take being wrapped, but they'll take a certain
amount of scraping on rocks in the short term. Good cheap fun for
years as long as one keeps within their limits. And the majority of
paddlers don't do anything all that awful to them or use them so often
that they'd be better off with more expensive canoes.

We're a rather specialized bunch here and our needs are different from
the weekend at the lake paddler. Well, mine aren't any more, but they
were and it's a darn good thing I had a very sturdy Old Town.

You don't need to spend money for the very best equipment if you're
not doing stuff that requires good equipment. You need the world's
best dinghy if you're going across the Atlanatic, but any old tub will
do if you're going fishing half a mile from your put in.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Cyli wrote:

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:01:49 +0800, "riverman"
wrote:


"Grip" wrote in message
...
On one my local creeks, there are two wrapped beyond repair
Cloeman's....I'll look to see if there are any salvagable parts.
Why do people even yake these things onto flodded creeks? Never
mind, I know the answer. lol



It would be a cloed day in hell before I yook one of them on a
flodded creek, I tell ya!

I've seen one used on Class III water by a couple of crazy country
guys. They were on their second Coleman, the first having wrapped and
then been stolen. They did fine and the canoe held up through the
three sets of rapids I watched them take. Their first Coleman had
lasted them years of fun. It's not something I'd ever recommend to
anyone, though.

But Colemans are perfectly adequate for fla****er lake and river
paddling. They won't take being wrapped, but they'll take a certain
amount of scraping on rocks in the short term. Good cheap fun for
years as long as one keeps within their limits. And the majority of
paddlers don't do anything all that awful to them or use them so often
that they'd be better off with more expensive canoes.

We're a rather specialized bunch here and our needs are different from
the weekend at the lake paddler. Well, mine aren't any more, but they
were and it's a darn good thing I had a very sturdy Old Town.

You don't need to spend money for the very best equipment if you're
not doing stuff that requires good equipment. You need the world's
best dinghy if you're going across the Atlanatic, but any old tub will
do if you're going fishing half a mile from your put in.

How true. I stared with a Coleman. I used it for a good number of years
and sold it for what I paid for it as my usage changed. I got a good
buy on an Old Town Discovery 169 from REI. It had a scratch in it which
was worht 20% off plus it was on sale. I bet a lot of people got into
canoeing with a Coleman. Jim

--

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

Well,

I have been reading all this good discussion. You are probably right -
but I still don't have any replacement parts - which is what started
all this fun.

But, the skill of the paddler is way more important than the equipment,
although the equipment makes things easier and allows for a higher
level of performance, whether canoes, skiis or golf clubs.

A friend and I have taken this Coleman down the Salmon river in Idaho
thru a number of class 2 & 3 rapids and done just fine, even better
than some of the high priced Old Towne etc. types. There is a boyscout
camp about 22 miles up from Riggins that regularly runs this section of
the river with a whole fleet of Coleman canoes. (I better check with
these guys)

Thanks for the discussion...and if you find any parts....

Frog

James wrote:
Cyli wrote:

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:01:49 +0800, "riverman"
wrote:


"Grip" wrote in message
...
On one my local creeks, there are two wrapped beyond repair
Cloeman's....I'll look to see if there are any salvagable parts.
Why do people even yake these things onto flodded creeks? Never
mind, I know the answer. lol



It would be a cloed day in hell before I yook one of them on a
flodded creek, I tell ya!

I've seen one used on Class III water by a couple of crazy country
guys. They were on their second Coleman, the first having wrapped and
then been stolen. They did fine and the canoe held up through the
three sets of rapids I watched them take. Their first Coleman had
lasted them years of fun. It's not something I'd ever recommend to
anyone, though.

But Colemans are perfectly adequate for fla****er lake and river
paddling. They won't take being wrapped, but they'll take a certain
amount of scraping on rocks in the short term. Good cheap fun for
years as long as one keeps within their limits. And the majority of
paddlers don't do anything all that awful to them or use them so often
that they'd be better off with more expensive canoes.

We're a rather specialized bunch here and our needs are different from
the weekend at the lake paddler. Well, mine aren't any more, but they
were and it's a darn good thing I had a very sturdy Old Town.

You don't need to spend money for the very best equipment if you're
not doing stuff that requires good equipment. You need the world's
best dinghy if you're going across the Atlanatic, but any old tub will
do if you're going fishing half a mile from your put in.

How true. I stared with a Coleman. I used it for a good number of years
and sold it for what I paid for it as my usage changed. I got a good
buy on an Old Town Discovery 169 from REI. It had a scratch in it which
was worht 20% off plus it was on sale. I bet a lot of people got into
canoeing with a Coleman. Jim

--

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

FrogontheLog wrote:

But, the skill of the paddler is way more important than the equipment,

No amount of skill will make up for a dangerously designed canoe. The tubes in
the Coleman represent an entrapment hazard. No amount of skill can fix that.
People haven't been criticizing the Coleman because it's ugly; they've been
criticizing it because it's no good.

Mike

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

FrogontheLog wrote:

Well,

I have been reading all this good discussion. You are probably right
- but I still don't have any replacement parts - which is what started
all this fun.

But, the skill of the paddler is way more important than the
equipment, although the equipment makes things easier and allows for
a higher level of performance, whether canoes, skiis or golf clubs.

A friend and I have taken this Coleman down the Salmon river in Idaho
thru a number of class 2 & 3 rapids and done just fine, even better
than some of the high priced Old Towne etc. types. There is a
boyscout camp about 22 miles up from Riggins that regularly runs this
section of the river with a whole fleet of Coleman canoes. (I better
check with these guys)

Thanks for the discussion...and if you find any parts....

Frog

I lived in Riggins for four years as a kid. I moved back to Boise in
1963. Is the camp up towards Riggins Hot Springs? Jim

James wrote:
Cyli wrote:

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:01:49 +0800, "riverman"
wrote:


"Grip" wrote in message
...
On one my local creeks, there are two wrapped beyond repair
Cloeman's....I'll look to see if there are any salvagable
parts. Why do people even yake these things onto flodded
creeks? Never mind, I know the answer. lol



It would be a cloed day in hell before I yook one of them on a
flodded creek, I tell ya!

I've seen one used on Class III water by a couple of crazy country
guys. They were on their second Coleman, the first having
wrapped and then been stolen. They did fine and the canoe held
up through the three sets of rapids I watched them take. Their
first Coleman had lasted them years of fun. It's not something
I'd ever recommend to anyone, though.

But Colemans are perfectly adequate for fla****er lake and river
paddling. They won't take being wrapped, but they'll take a
certain amount of scraping on rocks in the short term. Good
cheap fun for years as long as one keeps within their limits.
And the majority of paddlers don't do anything all that awful to
them or use them so often that they'd be better off with more
expensive canoes.

We're a rather specialized bunch here and our needs are different
from the weekend at the lake paddler. Well, mine aren't any
more, but they were and it's a darn good thing I had a very
sturdy Old Town.

You don't need to spend money for the very best equipment if
you're not doing stuff that requires good equipment. You need
the world's best dinghy if you're going across the Atlanatic, but
any old tub will do if you're going fishing half a mile from your
put in.

How true. I stared with a Coleman. I used it for a good number of
years and sold it for what I paid for it as my usage changed. I got
a good buy on an Old Town Discovery 169 from REI. It had a scratch
in it which was worht 20% off plus it was on sale. I bet a lot of
people got into canoeing with a Coleman. Jim

--

--

Coleman Canoe wrapped around a rock - need parts
 

The Lodge at Riggins hot springs is about 9 miles up the river from
Riggins, the Camp is closer to 22 miles up the river.

FrogOTL


James wrote:
FrogontheLog wrote:

Well,

I have been reading all this good discussion. You are probably right
- but I still don't have any replacement parts - which is what started
all this fun.

But, the skill of the paddler is way more important than the
equipment, although the equipment makes things easier and allows for
a higher level of performance, whether canoes, skiis or golf clubs.

A friend and I have taken this Coleman down the Salmon river in Idaho
thru a number of class 2 & 3 rapids and done just fine, even better
than some of the high priced Old Towne etc. types. There is a
boyscout camp about 22 miles up from Riggins that regularly runs this
section of the river with a whole fleet of Coleman canoes. (I better
check with these guys)

Thanks for the discussion...and if you find any parts....

Frog

I lived in Riggins for four years as a kid. I moved back to Boise in
1963. Is the camp up towards Riggins Hot Springs? Jim

James wrote:
Cyli wrote:

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:01:49 +0800, "riverman"
wrote:


"Grip" wrote in message
...
On one my local creeks, there are two wrapped beyond repair
Cloeman's....I'll look to see if there are any salvagable
parts. Why do people even yake these things onto flodded
creeks? Never mind, I know the answer. lol



It would be a cloed day in hell before I yook one of them on a
flodded creek, I tell ya!

I've seen one used on Class III water by a couple of crazy country
guys. They were on their second Coleman, the first having
wrapped and then been stolen. They did fine and the canoe held
up through the three sets of rapids I watched them take. Their
first Coleman had lasted them years of fun. It's not something
I'd ever recommend to anyone, though.

But Colemans are perfectly adequate for fla****er lake and river
paddling. They won't take being wrapped, but they'll take a
certain amount of scraping on rocks in the short term. Good
cheap fun for years as long as one keeps within their limits.
And the majority of paddlers don't do anything all that awful to
them or use them so often that they'd be better off with more
expensive canoes.

We're a rather specialized bunch here and our needs are different
from the weekend at the lake paddler. Well, mine aren't any
more, but they were and it's a darn good thing I had a very
sturdy Old Town.

You don't need to spend money for the very best equipment if
you're not doing stuff that requires good equipment. You need
the world's best dinghy if you're going across the Atlanatic, but
any old tub will do if you're going fishing half a mile from your
put in.

How true. I stared with a Coleman. I used it for a good number of
years and sold it for what I paid for it as my usage changed. I got
a good buy on an Old Town Discovery 169 from REI. It had a scratch
in it which was worht 20% off plus it was on sale. I bet a lot of
people got into canoeing with a Coleman. Jim

--

--