"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
ups.com...

riverman wrote:
"Charles d'Autremont" wrote in message
news
New 16 foot folding canoe (used once for 1 hour). Portage yolk.
Knee
pads.

These boats were formerly sold under the Mad River brand name.

To see boat go to www.pakboats.com

$200 off new price of $1695 and I'll throw in the kneepads for
free.

Portage yoke is $55.

Boat is in Tucson, Arizona at the moment.

I'll split the shipping.


Charles; I might be interested. I'm out of the US, but do some
online
research and find out what shipping to Bath, Maine costs, post it
here, and
I'll get back to you.

--riverman

PS: although its only been used for an hour, I would want to see some

detailed pics, if thats okay.

riverman, they have been talking about this 18 lbs, hard shell folder
on bagboaters, you might want to check it our,

http://www.foldlite.com/info.html

They sell for $795 if I remember right.

Some there have been less than excited about the pakboat for anything
serious. The frame is a little to light, and subject to difficulties in
high seas, like demonstrating its ability to self fold. Not good!

I don't know if they have any reports out yet on this foldlite though,
but may be good to check out. TnT


Looks interesting, Tom, but its a kayak and I'm a canoist. I have access to
seakayaks at my new school, but my first love is open boats. The lines on
the pakcanoe are very similar to the MR Explorer, which is (IMNSHO) the best
boat ever made. But the durability of the pakboat is a serious
consideration. Anyone else got stories?

--riverman

riverman wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
ups.com...

riverman wrote:
"Charles d'Autremont" wrote in
message
news New 16 foot folding canoe (used once for 1 hour). Portage yolk.
Knee
pads.

These boats were formerly sold under the Mad River brand name.

To see boat go to www.pakboats.com

$200 off new price of $1695 and I'll throw in the kneepads for
free.

Portage yoke is $55.

Boat is in Tucson, Arizona at the moment.

I'll split the shipping.


Charles; I might be interested. I'm out of the US, but do some
online
research and find out what shipping to Bath, Maine costs, post it
here, and
I'll get back to you.

--riverman

PS: although its only been used for an hour, I would want to see
some

detailed pics, if thats okay.

riverman, they have been talking about this 18 lbs, hard shell
folder
on bagboaters, you might want to check it our,

http://www.foldlite.com/info.html

They sell for $795 if I remember right.

Some there have been less than excited about the pakboat for
anything
serious. The frame is a little to light, and subject to
difficulties in
high seas, like demonstrating its ability to self fold. Not good!

I don't know if they have any reports out yet on this foldlite
though,
but may be good to check out. TnT


Looks interesting, Tom, but its a kayak and I'm a canoist. I have
access to
seakayaks at my new school, but my first love is open boats. The
lines on
the pakcanoe are very similar to the MR Explorer, which is (IMNSHO)
the best
boat ever made. But the durability of the pakboat is a serious
consideration. Anyone else got stories?

--riverman

I forget so quickly that you are an open boater. Foldlite is coming out
with some new products which may interest you, did you see them. One is
canoe, I believe.

When you open boat, are you using a saddle, or setting on the seats? Do
you use lots of flotation, or how do you keep heavy seas from swamping
boat, if not with spray deck of some sort? TnT
TnT

"Tinkerntom" wrote in news:1110646158.889159.131860
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:


riverman wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
ups.com...

riverman wrote:
"Charles d'Autremont" wrote in
message
news New 16 foot folding canoe (used once for 1 hour). Portage yolk.
Knee pads.

These boats were formerly sold under the Mad River brand name.

To see boat go to www.pakboats.com

$200 off new price of $1695 and I'll throw in the kneepads for
free.

Portage yoke is $55.

Boat is in Tucson, Arizona at the moment.

I'll split the shipping.


Charles; I might be interested. I'm out of the US, but do some
online research and find out what shipping to Bath, Maine costs,
post it here, and I'll get back to you.

--riverman

PS: although its only been used for an hour, I would want to see
some

detailed pics, if thats okay.

riverman, they have been talking about this 18 lbs, hard shell
folder on bagboaters, you might want to check it our,

http://www.foldlite.com/info.html

They sell for $795 if I remember right.

Some there have been less than excited about the pakboat for
anything serious. The frame is a little to light, and subject to
difficulties in high seas, like demonstrating its ability to self
fold. Not good!

I don't know if they have any reports out yet on this foldlite
though, but may be good to check out. TnT


Looks interesting, Tom, but its a kayak and I'm a canoist. I have
access to seakayaks at my new school, but my first love is open boats.
The lines on the pakcanoe are very similar to the MR Explorer, which
is (IMNSHO) the best boat ever made. But the durability of the pakboat
is a serious consideration. Anyone else got stories?

--riverman

I forget so quickly that you are an open boater.

Even if he was interested in a kayak I doubt that someone with as much
paddling experience as riverman has would be interested. Yes, it's only 18
pounds but it's also 10' long and 31" wide, putting it in the recreational
class. An inflatable seyvlor would likely have better performance.
Pakboats also makes a model called a Puffin which is also the same length,
weighs in a 17 pounds, and can be fitted with a spray deck.

Foldlite is coming out
with some new products which may interest you, did you see them. One is
canoe, I believe.

I think that riverman should come over to the dark side and build one of Tom
Yosts designed folding greenland kayaks.

John Fereira wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in
news:1110646158.889159.131860
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:


riverman wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
ups.com...

riverman wrote:
"Charles d'Autremont" wrote in
message

news
New 16 foot folding canoe (used once for 1 hour). Portage
yolk.
Knee pads.

These boats were formerly sold under the Mad River brand
name.

To see boat go to www.pakboats.com

$200 off new price of $1695 and I'll throw in the kneepads
for
free.

Portage yoke is $55.

Boat is in Tucson, Arizona at the moment.

I'll split the shipping.


Charles; I might be interested. I'm out of the US, but do some
online research and find out what shipping to Bath, Maine
costs,
post it here, and I'll get back to you.

--riverman

PS: although its only been used for an hour, I would want to
see
some

detailed pics, if thats okay.

riverman, they have been talking about this 18 lbs, hard shell
folder on bagboaters, you might want to check it our,

http://www.foldlite.com/info.html

They sell for $795 if I remember right.

Some there have been less than excited about the pakboat for
anything serious. The frame is a little to light, and subject to
difficulties in high seas, like demonstrating its ability to
self
fold. Not good!

I don't know if they have any reports out yet on this foldlite
though, but may be good to check out. TnT


Looks interesting, Tom, but its a kayak and I'm a canoist. I have
access to seakayaks at my new school, but my first love is open
boats.
The lines on the pakcanoe are very similar to the MR Explorer,
which
is (IMNSHO) the best boat ever made. But the durability of the
pakboat
is a serious consideration. Anyone else got stories?

--riverman

I forget so quickly that you are an open boater.

Even if he was interested in a kayak I doubt that someone with as
much
paddling experience as riverman has would be interested. Yes, it's
only 18
pounds but it's also 10' long and 31" wide, putting it in the
recreational
class. An inflatable seyvlor would likely have better performance.
Pakboats also makes a model called a Puffin which is also the same
length,
weighs in a 17 pounds, and can be fitted with a spray deck.

Foldlite is coming out
with some new products which may interest you, did you see them.
One is
canoe, I believe.

I think that riverman should come over to the dark side and build one
of Tom
Yosts designed folding greenland kayaks.

Yeah I noticed that it is a bit stoggy and beamy, but for an older
stuck-in-his-rut open boat man, it might be a good place for him to
start.

But then it could be like in the movie Quincy, where at the end after
the gunfight, Quicy says, "I didn't say I didn't know how to use one,
it's just not my preference!"

I'm in favor of that darkside metamorphosis, Yost being a neighbor of
mine here in Denver, and him making some dandy boats. Though I don't
know whether riverman is inclined to the hobby craftsmen aspect of
building your own, besides having the time between now and going to, is
it HK. TnT

On 12 Mar 2005 12:00:12 -0800, "Tinkerntom" wrote:

But then it could be like in the movie Quincy, where at the end after
the gunfight, Quicy says, "I didn't say I didn't know how to use one,
it's just not my preference!"

Off topic somewhat, but I think you may mean the movie "Quigley Down
Under" starring Tom Selleck.

The line was:
"I said I never had no use for one. Never said I didn't know how to
use it."

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Gary S. wrote:
On 12 Mar 2005 12:00:12 -0800, "Tinkerntom" wrote:

But then it could be like in the movie Quincy, where at the end
after
the gunfight, Quicy says, "I didn't say I didn't know how to use
one,
it's just not my preference!"

Off topic somewhat, but I think you may mean the movie "Quigley Down
Under" starring Tom Selleck.

The line was:
"I said I never had no use for one. Never said I didn't know how to
use it."

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

You got it! My ahlzimers been bad to day! :-) TnT

Big snip---

Hey Tom, have you seen the Yost boats in person? I found his web site very
intriguing. I have been wanting to do a stitch and glue from One Ocean but
have not started yet and the idea of a boat that I could easily take on a
family vacation has me thinking about trying that one first. I just would
like to have an opinion from someone that has eyeballed or better yet
paddled one of these boats. If I remember correctly you have a folding boat
from one of the manufacturers right? Do you find that it is capable of
taking the abuse of hitting bottom now and again? Do you use float bags or a
sea sock?

Ken

I'm in favor of that darkside metamorphosis, Yost being a neighbor of
mine here in Denver, and him making some dandy boats. Though I don't
know whether riverman is inclined to the hobby craftsmen aspect of
building your own, besides having the time between now and going to, is
it HK. TnT

No Spam wrote:
Big snip---

Hey Tom, have you seen the Yost boats in person? I found his web site
very
intriguing. I have been wanting to do a stitch and glue from One
Ocean but
have not started yet and the idea of a boat that I could easily take
on a
family vacation has me thinking about trying that one first. I just
would
like to have an opinion from someone that has eyeballed or better yet
paddled one of these boats. If I remember correctly you have a
folding boat
from one of the manufacturers right? Do you find that it is capable
of
taking the abuse of hitting bottom now and again? Do you use float
bags or a
sea sock?

Ken

I'm in favor of that darkside metamorphosis, Yost being a neighbor
of
mine here in Denver, and him making some dandy boats. Though I
don't
know whether riverman is inclined to the hobby craftsmen aspect of
building your own, besides having the time between now and going
to, is
it HK. TnT


I have corresponded with him, about getting together, but have yet to
do so. He is real approachable and glad to talk boats. He was going to
take a look at my older 1973 Folbot Super which is a double. I got it
used, and though the PVC hull is waterproof, there are a few thin spots
where it got pinched against the frame. Yost has alot of experience
working with the PVC, since that is what he uses on his boats. He does
so because it is cheaper to manufacture, and maintain yourself, once
you get the hang of it. Which by the time you get done building one of
his, you should have no problem.

Most of the Bagboaters put sacrificial strips on the hull along the
longerons to take the abuse. I recently found some special PVC tape
that I am going to try using. It comes with some very sticky waterproof
adhesive, is UV resistant, and is solid 10 mil thick. Most packing tape
is 1 or 2 mil, so gives you an idea, and there is not cloth backing
like duct tape. Some of the guys have used the duct tape which is good
for about a season, and then you replace it.

Most of the newer boats use a Hypalon hull which is probably tougher,
but is also a little more involved to work on. Most of the guys seem to
be really happy with it, and say it should last 30-40 years.

You do want to use lots of flotation, since there are no bulkheads and
hatches. However my Super is 17.5 ft, and can handle 700 lbs. Some
folks consider it more of a decked canoe, though there are spray skirts
that you can put on it. There is a lot of Tumble down, with a 36" beam,
makes for a very stable boat, and not likely to roll. Some use the
seasock, but mostly just to keep spray out, and that is in heavy seas.

Some of the newer Folbots, are comparable to Hard shell, and the
Feathercraft I've heard, actually will out perform some of the high end
sea kayaks. I don't know that any of the folders are recommended for
anything over class 2 WW. But it is not the hull that determines the
limit, as much as the frame. However some of the newer frames would
appear to be almost unbreakable, such as Yost with the HDP, and heavy
aluminum tubes. The structural strength may be more than a poly boat,
and then it gets back to penetration issues and they are getting the
hull to be almost ballistic. Well maybe not ballistic, but then hard
shell aren't either.

There is a Yahoo group for Bagboaters where they talk about all this
stuff. They tend to be orientated to trying all kinds of modifications
since the platform is very flexible and frindly to us Tinkers! TnT

Following up to both posts.

"Tinkerntom" wrote in news:1110685668.227862.222450
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


No Spam wrote:
Big snip---

Hey Tom, have you seen the Yost boats in person? I found his web site
very intriguing. I have been wanting to do a stitch and glue from One
Ocean but have not started yet and the idea of a boat that I could
easily take on a family vacation has me thinking about trying that one
first. I just would like to have an opinion from someone that has
eyeballed or better yet paddled one of these boats. If I remember
correctly you have a folding boat from one of the manufacturers right?

Someone local built one (I think it was the Sea Rover) and I even got the
chance to paddle it a bit (while he paddled my cedar strip Outer Island). I
liked how it paddled but he wasn't quite finished with it. He hadn't built
the wood floor yet so the hull flexed much more than it should have. As a
result, the hull would flex when making a tight low brace or bow rudder turn
and make the boat spin on a dime. However, when trying to roll it, the boat
would flex when I hip-snapped the middle of the boat would lift. I had to
really slow down the roll or perform a layback, and without the wood floor
it was a bit uncomfortable laying back against the cockpit combing. It also
had a couple of leaks that the builder hadn't fixed yet so it got real
slugish after a few deep edged turns.

Do you find that it is capable of taking the abuse of hitting bottom
now and again? Do you use float bags or a sea sock?

I would probably go with float bags although finding some that would fit
such a low volume boat (or a sea sock for that matter) might be difficult.
They could probably be made though.


Ken

I'm in favor of that darkside metamorphosis, Yost being a neighbor
of mine here in Denver, and him making some dandy boats. Though I
don't know whether riverman is inclined to the hobby craftsmen
aspect of building your own, besides having the time between now and
going to, is it HK. TnT


I have corresponded with him, about getting together, but have yet to
do so. He is real approachable and glad to talk boats.

I also corresponded wth Tom a bit and he assured me that the problems I had
with the boat I paddled were due to the construction, not the design. I may
have to build one to find out how it's *supposed* to paddle.



Most of the Bagboaters put sacrificial strips on the hull along the
longerons to take the abuse. I recently found some special PVC tape
that I am going to try using. It comes with some very sticky waterproof
adhesive, is UV resistant, and is solid 10 mil thick. Most packing tape
is 1 or 2 mil, so gives you an idea, and there is not cloth backing
like duct tape.

You got a source for that tape? If I build one I might want to use some as
well.

Some of the guys have used the duct tape which is good
for about a season, and then you replace it.

Most of the newer boats use a Hypalon hull which is probably tougher,
but is also a little more involved to work on. Most of the guys seem to
be really happy with it, and say it should last 30-40 years.

I've seen a few original Folbots that were 30 years old.

Some of the newer Folbots, are comparable to Hard shell, and the
Feathercraft I've heard, actually will out perform some of the high end
sea kayaks.

I paddled a Feathercraft Khastlano about 5 years ago and liked it quite a
bit though I don't know about it out performing a hardshell. Some claim
that the flex in the hull makes it more seaworthy in rough seas than a
hardshell. The Khastlano is also something like $4,000.


There is a Yahoo group for Bagboaters where they talk about all this
stuff. They tend to be orientated to trying all kinds of modifications
since the platform is very flexible and frindly to us Tinkers! TnT

Ralph Diaz frequently posts to the Paddlewise mailing list as well as
another Ralph from somewhere in Europe that promotes the Pouch Boats.

The pacboats have a good reputation for expeditions in northern Canada.
I have read numerous reports from people who have used them for fly-in
trips with good success, and no reports saying that they are junk.

I know one guy who owns a smaller one, and he reports two issues: 1.
Compared to Royalex, the Packboats are not as slippery, so sometime
stick on rocks as opposed to sliding over therm. 2. He says that
assembling it is very time consuming, although he did not report a
specific assembly time. I think he might be talking over half an hour
assembly time, so he tends to leave it assembled, even if he is driving
1000 miles. I think that he likes the boat overall. He bought it with
Canadian fly-in trips in mind.

I have never paddled a Pacboat, but I would like to have one. I don't
have the money at this instant, however, nor do I have a fly-in trip
scheduled, where it would make especially good sense. A folding boat
can really simplify trip logistics, easy to take on public transporation
or small planes.

Richard


riverman wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
ups.com...

riverman wrote:

"Charles d'Autremont" wrote in message
news
New 16 foot folding canoe (used once for 1 hour). Portage yolk.

Knee

pads.

These boats were formerly sold under the Mad River brand name.

To see boat go to www.pakboats.com

$200 off new price of $1695 and I'll throw in the kneepads for

free.

Portage yoke is $55.

Boat is in Tucson, Arizona at the moment.

I'll split the shipping.


Charles; I might be interested. I'm out of the US, but do some

online

research and find out what shipping to Bath, Maine costs, post it

here, and

I'll get back to you.

--riverman

PS: although its only been used for an hour, I would want to see some

detailed pics, if thats okay.

riverman, they have been talking about this 18 lbs, hard shell folder
on bagboaters, you might want to check it our,

http://www.foldlite.com/info.html

They sell for $795 if I remember right.

Some there have been less than excited about the pakboat for anything
serious. The frame is a little to light, and subject to difficulties in
high seas, like demonstrating its ability to self fold. Not good!

I don't know if they have any reports out yet on this foldlite though,
but may be good to check out. TnT



Looks interesting, Tom, but its a kayak and I'm a canoist. I have access to
seakayaks at my new school, but my first love is open boats. The lines on
the pakcanoe are very similar to the MR Explorer, which is (IMNSHO) the best
boat ever made. But the durability of the pakboat is a serious
consideration. Anyone else got stories?

--riverman