Anyone using Sponsons?
 

A taboo subject in this group. PLEASE DON'T ASK THIS QUESTION AGAIN.

back40 wrote:
Or have comments on sponsons vs paddle floats?

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

lcopps wrote:

A taboo subject in this group. PLEASE DON'T ASK THIS QUESTION AGAIN.

I disagree. This should be brought up periodically in order to educate
people who may be considering them based on the misinformation provided
by you-know-who. Not only will it save people money, it may save a life.
If one were to believe Tim-bo, one might be led to believe that they
need not carry much more important safety gear or learn vital paddling
skills, since he portrays sponsons as a safety panacea. Paddlers need to
know the truth about the lack of utility of sponsons.

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

I totally disagree.

The Web is tremendous power and if people are using it to sell stuff
that is useless or dangerous we need experienced people to remind us
on a regular
basis that some of it is total crap.

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

Its like a bullet looking for a war.

Brian Nystrom wrote:
lcopps wrote:

A taboo subject in this group. PLEASE DON'T ASK THIS QUESTION AGAIN.


I disagree. This should be brought up periodically in order to educate
people who may be considering them based on the misinformation provided
by you-know-who. Not only will it save people money, it may save a life.
If one were to believe Tim-bo, one might be led to believe that they
need not carry much more important safety gear or learn vital paddling
skills, since he portrays sponsons as a safety panacea. Paddlers need to
know the truth about the lack of utility of sponsons.

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

I guess you have not been here long enough to know the painful history
behind this subject.

Serge wrote:

I totally disagree.

The Web is tremendous power and if people are using it to sell stuff
that is useless or dangerous we need experienced people to remind us
on a regular
basis that some of it is total crap.

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
...
lcopps wrote:

A taboo subject in this group. PLEASE DON'T ASK THIS QUESTION AGAIN.

I disagree. This should be brought up periodically in order to educate
people who may be considering them based on the misinformation provided
by you-know-who. Not only will it save people money, it may save a life.
If one were to believe Tim-bo, one might be led to believe that they
need not carry much more important safety gear or learn vital paddling
skills, since he portrays sponsons as a safety panacea. Paddlers need to
know the truth about the lack of utility of sponsons.

I agree with Brian. I was through the last war or 2 when Timmy plagued RBP.
I don't want to see his return, but I do believe that his "safety" product
should be discussed. If we stifle discussion on sponsons, novices won't have
any view but Timmy's.

Lloyd Bowles
www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

See:
http://www.bconnex.net/~timkayak/canoe.html

Tim

"Lloyd Bowles" wrote in message om...
"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
...
lcopps wrote:

A taboo subject in this group. PLEASE DON'T ASK THIS QUESTION AGAIN.

I disagree. This should be brought up periodically in order to educate
people who may be considering them based on the misinformation provided
by you-know-who. Not only will it save people money, it may save a life.
If one were to believe Tim-bo, one might be led to believe that they
need not carry much more important safety gear or learn vital paddling
skills, since he portrays sponsons as a safety panacea. Paddlers need to
know the truth about the lack of utility of sponsons.

I agree with Brian. I was through the last war or 2 when Timmy plagued RBP.
I don't want to see his return, but I do believe that his "safety" product
should be discussed. If we stifle discussion on sponsons, novices won't have
any view but Timmy's.

Lloyd Bowles
www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

On 2/20/2004 6:27 AM, Tim Ingram wrote:

See:
http://www.bconnex.net/~timkayak/canoe.html

Tim

Here we go again... someone just had take the bait.

Don't feed the trolls,
Steve

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

If you are a canoeist & want to participate in canoe safety discussion
without spammers & idiots, just cruise over to Canadian Canoe Routes at
http://www.myccr.com/ . It's moderated & it's very active.

Lloyd Bowles
www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

Dear Lloyd:

You initiated "the need to discuss sponsons", as the record shows.

Now you want a "moderated" (i.e. censored) discussion. A discussion
cannot have one side. I want you to know that these posts are included
in a very large social psychology experiment.

You see, Milgram had a lot of flack at Yale in the 60's, for hurting
subjects psychologically. But this newsgroup already puts paddlers in
the water with no means of escape. (Hurting them terminally.) So they
die anyway. I am well within any legal and academic ethical
boundaries. In fact I need to occasionally show that I do everything
possible to try to prevent canoe and kayak deaths.

What is interesting for the study is your discussion, among others.
Not only that, you continue to wish the worst for future dead Girl
Guides etc. (No means to escape deadly waters.) Those dear little
girls were wearing PFDs of course.

Anyone can see:

http://www.bconnex.net/~timkayak/canoe.html

and they have no wonder that sales decline etc., in a sport that wants
to make it as hard as possible to get out of the water and live. Even
for kids. Not a good move for decent people. Or anyone trying to
promote a sport. Sell by safety. And other positive benefits. No point
making boats that hurt people, when they can be remarkably safe!

Tim


"Lloyd Bowles" wrote in message om...
If you are a canoeist & want to participate in canoe safety discussion
without spammers & idiots, just cruise over to Canadian Canoe Routes at
http://www.myccr.com/ . It's moderated & it's very active.

Lloyd Bowles
www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

Oops... I didn't know what kind of can of worms this topic is.

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

"Serge" wrote in message
om...
Oops... I didn't know what kind of can of worms this topic is.

It is. Rather unavoidable though, because new readers have no idea of the
benefits & drawbacks of various safety options & they have no idea that this
topic will unleash a nutcase.

So carry on the discussion if necessary because it's the only way to learn.
Read the nutcase's posts if you want, but don't respond. Then when you've
had enough, filter him.

If you think I'm the nutcase, filter me. :-)

Lloyd Bowles
www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc

Anyone using Sponsons?
 

I shall be using Lloyd's posts too at the coroner's inquest into the
Girl Guides' deaths. Several years ago Lloyd sent me emails indicating
there was no way to rescue a canoe. (see Bill Mason's "Song of the
Paddle" for the same opinion.)

Lloyd now is one person here who wants canoes to kill as effectively
as possible, apparently. Lloyd is not a nut as he suggests below. Who
would kill Girl Guides deliberately, repeatedly?

http://www.bconnex.net/~timkayak/canoe.html

It is absurdly simple! Give people a means to get out of the water and
they don't die!

City waterfronts have buoyant, lifesaving objects available to save
anyone. (Most people don't stroll wearing a PFD!) For a thousand years
buoyant objects have saved human lives. But canoes and kayaks are
denied a simple, inexpensive, and obvious means to get out of the
water in 2004! Why have ambulances or even Coast Guards, if the
simplest form of watercraft is allowed to murder children and their
parents at a rate never before seen in history! This death rate is so
simply remedied that eventually, criminal charges are certain.

In Canada, the death rate is much higher than the US, thanks to the
Canadian Coast Guard covering up a study by a Canadian Search and
Rescue Officer who found exactly the same sponson safety reported by
the US Military Special Forces Kayaking Study (10th Airborne) in 1994.
Result: About 500 Canadian canoe and kayak deaths.

This study and others will stand with "Hitler's Willing Executioners"
and Milgram's studies at Yale, regarding the darker aspects of
humanity. You simply have no other instances of such a high death
rate, easily remedied, by such a small "murder cult". I repeat what I
stated above: "There is plenty of "macho" ego, regarding instruction
that no judge or jury can accomplish. There are however, plentiful
arguments that the victims deserved to die, as a Darwinian
perspective."

Tim


"Lloyd Bowles" wrote in message om...
"Serge" wrote in message
om...
Oops... I didn't know what kind of can of worms this topic is.

It is. Rather unavoidable though, because new readers have no idea of the
benefits & drawbacks of various safety options & they have no idea that this
topic will unleash a nutcase.

So carry on the discussion if necessary because it's the only way to learn.
Read the nutcase's posts if you want, but don't respond. Then when you've
had enough, filter him.

If you think I'm the nutcase, filter me. :-)

Lloyd Bowles
www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc