Feathercaraft
 

They just revamped their website so I it appears they are still very
much in business. Many of their distributors sell very few Kayaks
because of their price range and appear not to know much about the
linup. Try Peter at KlepperWest.com. He is dedicated to folding kayaks,
and has an extensive linup. He will also give you a good price.

back40 wrote:
Are these *******s going bankrupt? Attemptng to place an order for
their "Airline Java Sit On Top" kayak through "Mountain Co-op"
distributor resulted in a a sarcastc response indicating no knowledge
of the model.
Given the current economic uncertainties and bankruptcies, would I be
better avised tgo place an order for a folding kayak thorugh Folbot?

Feathercaraft
 

MEC does not advertise that model.
They don't ship any Feathercraft boats to the states. (a lot of their
products have restricted distribution)

I've dealt recently with Feathercraft, and would definitely NOT describe
them as "*******s".

Good luck with your boat purchase.

"back40" wrote in message
...

Are these *******s going bankrupt? Attemptng to place an order for
their "Airline Java Sit On Top" kayak through "Mountain Co-op"
distributor resulted in a a sarcastc response indicating no knowledge
of the model.
Given the current economic uncertainties and bankruptcies, would I be
better avised tgo place an order for a folding kayak thorugh Folbot?

Feathercaraft
 

Correction, they do advertise it.
My mistake.

"Tom Morrison" wrote in message
news:h_pXb.499516$ts4.190720@pd7tw3no...
MEC does not advertise that model.
They don't ship any Feathercraft boats to the states. (a lot of their
products have restricted distribution)

I've dealt recently with Feathercraft, and would definitely NOT describe
them as "*******s".

Good luck with your boat purchase.

"back40" wrote in message
...

Are these *******s going bankrupt? Attemptng to place an order for
their "Airline Java Sit On Top" kayak through "Mountain Co-op"
distributor resulted in a a sarcastc response indicating no knowledge
of the model.
Given the current economic uncertainties and bankruptcies, would I be
better avised tgo place an order for a folding kayak thorugh Folbot?

Feathercaraft
 

"back40" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:09:17 GMT, "Tom Morrison"
wrote:

MEC does not advertise that model.

They certainly do!


http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_l...=1076769588495

They don't ship any Feathercraft boats to the States.

I'm in Canada, not the States, and the MEC I called is also in Canada
- Toronto.

I think that mail order sales are handled out of Vancouver. That might
explain why you got the run-a-round from the Toronto store. You still might
be able to get it for 2K + shipping.



(a lot of their
products have restricted distribution)

I can see that - restricted to those willing to pay more than the
advertised price!

I've dealt recently with Feathercraft, and would definitely NOT describe
them as "*******s".

Ostensibly they are changing their dealer setup. Odd that a major
retailer like MEC in Toronto would be dropped. I'm just happy I didn't
place an order with anyone and give out a credit card number.
I don't know what's going on, but when staring at an ad on Internet,
while simulateneously talking with the firm on the phone, trying to
place an order, and getting denials that they ever listed such a
product, or such a price, something is not kosher.


Feathercraft is a small outfit I think. Personally, I would have no issue
giving them my credit card #. I had a problem with one of the parts I
ordered for my K1. They replaced it fast, free, without any request to
return the deffective part.

It looks like they have chosen to market their products directly in Canada.


Good luck with your boat purchase.

Purchase is on hold while I look for reputable builder/dealer.

Feathercaraft
 

Perhaps the problem is with the dealer. Western Folding Kayaks had a
great selection, Feathercraft has shown themselves responsive and caring
to their customers. I have nothing to say but good things in my dealings
with them. From all folding kayaks I have paddled, the feathercrafts are
the only ones on par with the hard shells as far as performance. And the
quality is top notch. If leg space is an issue, you might also consider
the K1. It takes longer to assemble than the sit-on-tops but is a fast,
stable and very roomy boat. I found the sit-on-tops to be a bit
unstable, inherent from sitting above the water line. However, I tested
the Java, and speedwise, it is also on par with some hardshells.

back40 wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:12:21 GMT, "Tom Morrison"
wrote:

[....]


I think that mail order sales are handled out of Vancouver. That might
explain why you got the run-a-round from the Toronto store. You still might
be able to get it for 2K + shipping.


They emailed me, saying they have just ONE left, and I can have it for
the advertised price. That's real big of them. "LAST ONE" - hmmm,
conjures up visions of a dusty "display" model, or a return.....Or,
maybe it _Is_ a bargain price on a line they won't be handling
anymore. Do I want to risk it?
All I wanted was to order the boat, and, like Janis Joplin, "wait for
delivery." Instead, it was the runaround.



Feathercraft is a small outfit I think. Personally, I would have no issue
giving them my credit card #. I had a problem with one of the parts I
ordered for my K1. They replaced it fast, free, without any request to
return the deffective part.


I sailed. After some years, interest waned, the maintenance became a
dreary chore, the boat didn't see the water for some seasons, and
finally the marina closed. Boat in storage since. I had a stroke,
which affected sense of balance. Thought a kayak would get me back on
the water, and help with recovery. It did. A plastic Dimension Nomad.
(I looked at Feathercraft, but it seemed like an awful lot of money
for some waterproof fabric and aluminum tubing.) But time and old age
marches on - after an hour or more of sitting in the same position,
with no room to move my legs, I'm so stiff I literally have to fall
out of the thing.
Thinking a sit on top might be more comfortable, at least allowing one
to stretch legs and move knees a bit, I've been looking. The Java
looked interesting - at last, a more reasonable price from
Feathercraft. Is it new and innovative, or did they just come up with
something cheap to make - after all, in this economy, there can't be
an endless supply of millionaires shopping for six thousand dollar
kayaks! Maybe I should get a couple of air matresses and three lengths
of aluminum conduit, and make my own Java!


It looks like they have chosen to market their products directly in Canada.


Well, perhaps they should be more open about such things, instead of
playing games. If there is a rift between Feathercraft and its
dealers, that's their problem, not mine. I don't feel like playing
monkey in the middle.
Folbot sounds like the answer. Like you, my sister's S.O. has a
Feathercraft, which he hauls to St. Lucia, and spends weeks on
Northern camping trips. He swears by it. But how much is the
superiority fact and how much mythology? Gordon Sinclair, a now gone
broadcaster, owned a Rolls, but candidly admitted it wasn't really any
more dependable than an Olsmobile.

Feathercaraft
 

"back40" wrote in message
...

I've never paddled a sit on top, but it seems logical that sitting
higher would raise the centre of gravity, and make them less stable.
But, I have seen paddlers fooling around in them at the local beach,
and for the antics going on, the craft seemed remarkably stable.
However, I don't think I want a hard shell sit on top. The long
cockpit opening in the Folbot Greenland II certainly should allow
freedom of leg movement.


I was a bit skeptical from its appearance, but read nothing but good
reviews. Of course, reviews should be taken with a grain of sand.
Speed isn't the prime consideration for me - comfort and stability are
important. I'm 6'1" and just under 250 lbs. and that limits the
choices somewhat.



Even the Folbot singles have generous cockpit openings, if that's what you
are looking for. The price is reasonable, and the company very nice. They
are stable. Not the fastest or most responsive things out there, and not the
"one with the kayak" type, so there's tradeoffs, depending on what you want.
You'll probably need to work on the seating a bit, though, to improve
under-thigh and lower-back support.

Personally, I'm glad Feathercraft has gone to direct ordering from their
website.

Mike (has a Greenland II for us, wants a Kahuna for me)

Feathercaraft
 

"back40" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:30:37 GMT, "Mike Hackett"
wrote:


Even the Folbot singles have generous cockpit openings, if that's what
you
are looking for. The price is reasonable,

Yes, especially now their annual sale on till month-end.

and the company very nice.

Read reviews from many happy owners, just one disgruntled one who said
things broke (plastic crossframe?) the first time out. Warranty
service seems first-rate.

They are stable. Not the fastest or most responsive things out there, and
not the
"one with the kayak" type, so there's tradeoffs, depending on what you
want.

You'll probably need to work on the seating a bit, though, to improve
under-thigh and lower-back support.
I did read comments on the lack of a footrest.
Personally, I'm glad Feathercraft has gone to direct ordering from their
website.

It would seem logical to either sell factory direct, OR through
dealers, but not both, since your own dealers wind up competing with
you, (and situtations like I encountered happen).

Mike (has a Greenland II for us, wants a Kahuna for me)

You have a Greenland II! That is the boat I am now considering,with
the sail rig, and if I could ask your advice...I would primarily be
paddling solo. More than a few people have said they regretted buying
a double for solo use, because the added height and beam makes
paddling in the solo position awkward, and the greater windage when
only loaded with one paddler makes it a handful in crosswinds or rough
water.
Have you found this to be the case? Would I be making a mistake buying
this for solo use?
It is, after all, only a few inches longer than my current rotomold,
2 inches more height, but there is ten inches more beam, although that
should provide considerably more stability, and being a large paddler
myself, I didn't think it should be a problem.
The Kodiak model is also more roomy than my Dimension Nomad, and has a
larger cockpit opening, AND is considerably cheaper than the
Greenland, BUT is the only model for which Folbot does not offer
aluminum crossframes. Given my bulk, I'd rather have the metal, and
the ability to carry another paddler occasionally, or a lot of camping
gear would be a plus.
The closest paddle for me is Lake Ontario, hence added freeboard and
stability would provide more peace of mind.



The GII is a great boat. Get the solo kit and you should be fine. Check out
the solo sprayskirt mods on http://www.folbot.com/forum.html for sturdier
options.

Dave


Red Greenland II
http://webkatz.net/kayak/gII.html

Feathercaraft
 

"back40" wrote in message
...

It would seem logical to either sell factory direct, OR through
dealers, but not both, since your own dealers wind up competing with
you, (and situtations like I encountered happen).

Yeah, not a great situation, I have to think this is sort of a transition
period they are in. One thing I'm wondering is if they finally do become
direct-sales only, will they drop their prices to more like a wholesale
price.



You have a Greenland II! That is the boat I am now considering,with
the sail rig, and if I could ask your advice...I would primarily be
paddling solo. More than a few people have said they regretted buying
a double for solo use, because the added height and beam makes
paddling in the solo position awkward, and the greater windage when
only loaded with one paddler makes it a handful in crosswinds or rough
water.
Have you found this to be the case? Would I be making a mistake buying
this for solo use?
It is, after all, only a few inches longer than my current rotomold,
2 inches more height, but there is ten inches more beam, although that
should provide considerably more stability, and being a large paddler
myself, I didn't think it should be a problem.
The Kodiak model is also more roomy than my Dimension Nomad, and has a
larger cockpit opening, AND is considerably cheaper than the
Greenland, BUT is the only model for which Folbot does not offer
aluminum crossframes. Given my bulk, I'd rather have the metal, and
the ability to carry another paddler occasionally, or a lot of camping
gear would be a plus.
The closest paddle for me is Lake Ontario, hence added freeboard and
stability would provide more peace of mind.


I'm a bad person to ask about solo paddling. I thought I would be doing that
sometimes, and did buy the solo seat kit, but, have never taken it out by
myself. I get relatively few chances to go paddling and so far they've all
been joint ventures, the three seasons I've had it. Frankly, I'd consider it
a bit of a barge to paddle solo, which is why I keep liking to imagine
there's a Kahuna in my future. I'm sure it works, and of course the
potential payload would be tremendous. But at this point I have little
interest going out in it by myself, because I'd always be thinking how far
from an optimal single-person craft it would be. My paddling location is the
Hudson River so I'm usually wanting to cover some distance, even more so if
I were by myself.

Unless you really want the two-person capability, sailing, or payload, I'd
think a Kodiak or Yukon would be a better choice. The plastic crossframes
would not concern me at all, they are plenty strong enough for their
intended purpose. I think the main advantages of the new aluminum tube
versions are some minor weight savings and a bit larger inside perimeter.

Mike

Feathercaraft
 

I still trying to figure out what the fuzz is all about.
How's the bad guy? Feathercraft, MEC, or somebodyelse?

So MEC had one left in stock for mail order, (or was it Feathercraft)?
It's the last one, so what? If it is OK? MEC often buys stuff once a year on bulk to
get good pricing (but I guess boats are not in that category -just to expensive to
stock them).

The local MEC store had none in stock, that's easy to understand given the price and
demand in such a product.

So why not mail-order, since their price seems OK and competitive to the Feathercraft
price. It's not unusual that dealers are able to sell below manufacturers direct
pricing. Makes sense, than manufacturers don't want to compete with their dealers,
otherwise they would not have them for long.

Based on language and attitude in the first message I don't want to know how the
conversation in the store went. I found MEC staff so far very cooperative and
helpful, in the store and on the phone.

My 0..02 $

Ulli

Feathercaraft
 

"back40" wrote in message
...

If I find it is a handful when paddling solo, I can always place an ad
in the personals - "Wife wanted, must have own paddle."


And that's not a bad thing either ;)

See you on the forum.

Webkatz

Feathercaraft
 

"back40" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:18:08 -0600, "Dave"
wrote:

The GII is a great boat. Get the solo kit and you should be fine. Check
out
the solo sprayskirt mods on http://www.folbot.com/forum.html for sturdier
options.

Dave


Red Greenland II
http://webkatz.net/kayak/gII.html

Thanks for the input! You say, "go for it!", and Mike H. says,
"Don't!", but my mind is pretty much made up. Spent much time reading
the messages on the Folbot Forum, and everything I read there said,
"Yes!"
If I find it is a handful when paddling solo, I can always place an ad
in the personals - "Wife wanted, must have own paddle."


More like "it depends", please... The GII is a great boat, as others have
said. One thing I can say, it will keep you dry and right-side up. We've had
occasion to be hit by some pretty daunting boat wakes (including one
double-decker tour boat who apparently wanted to teach me some sort of
lesson) and it rode them with not the slightest worry of capsizing.

Mike

Feathercaraft
 

Ditto. I think it must have been a real bad winter out East. ;-) I think the
Back40 has a case of cabin fever.

Springs, just around the corner!

Oh yeah, and black fly season, West Nile, the local, "Kent Brockman" talking
about, "The dangers of DEET", and for Southern Ontario, humidex readings in
the mid 40's. ; - )


"Ulli" wrote in message
...
I still trying to figure out what the fuzz is all about.
How's the bad guy? Feathercraft, MEC, or somebodyelse?

So MEC had one left in stock for mail order, (or was it Feathercraft)?
It's the last one, so what? If it is OK? MEC often buys stuff once a year
on bulk to
get good pricing (but I guess boats are not in that category -just to
expensive to
stock them).

The local MEC store had none in stock, that's easy to understand given the
price and
demand in such a product.

So why not mail-order, since their price seems OK and competitive to the
Feathercraft
price. It's not unusual that dealers are able to sell below manufacturers
direct
pricing. Makes sense, than manufacturers don't want to compete with their
dealers,
otherwise they would not have them for long.

Based on language and attitude in the first message I don't want to know
how the
conversation in the store went. I found MEC staff so far very cooperative
and
helpful, in the store and on the phone.

My 0..02 $

Ulli

Feathercaraft
 

I have a Klepper Arius II which is nearly identicle in size to the
Greenland II. It does not weathercock so long as the seat is in the
center position, or the front is weighted. But it feels like an awful
lot of excess boat when I solo paddle it. I normally just paddle it from
the rear seat when I take it out solo. If there is not a lot of wind or
latteral wave action, it handles just fine.

You might also look at the Folbot Yukon. I was very impressed when I
test paddled one in Charleston. It is very nimble and has lots of room
for a single, and has a large cockpit opening. It is also reasonably
priced.

The Klepper Arius II and Longhaul Mark II are similar to the Greenland
II. They both have durable beautifully fashoned varnished wood frames
that have a very solid feel. The Klepper is a bit more pricey because it
is a legendary boat with a colorful history. Still the only stock boat
to cross the Atlantic ocean. The Longhaul Mark II is a new boat designed
from the Klepper, but with several improvements like feathercraft style
hatches. It also costs much less.

I have both a Wood framed Klepper and a composite framed Feathercraft
and like them both for differing reasons. I enjoy the smell, beauty and
solid workmanship of the wood frame. They assemble easier, but should
not be left togeather for long periods of time since standing water in
the hull can wear the varnish and rot the wood. Composite frames can be
left togeather for up to a couple of months if the joints are properly
lubricated. But, they assemble a bit harder, and do not have that
classic look and feel.

http://www.longhaulfoldingkayaks.com/
http://www.klepper.com/


back40 wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:18:08 -0600, "Dave"
wrote:


The GII is a great boat. Get the solo kit and you should be fine. Check out
the solo sprayskirt mods on http://www.folbot.com/forum.html for sturdier
options.

Dave


Red Greenland II
http://webkatz.net/kayak/gII.html


Thanks for the input! You say, "go for it!", and Mike H. says,
"Don't!", but my mind is pretty much made up. Spent much time reading
the messages on the Folbot Forum, and everything I read there said,
"Yes!"
If I find it is a handful when paddling solo, I can always place an ad
in the personals - "Wife wanted, must have own paddle."

Feathercaraft
 

More like "it depends", please... The GII is a great boat, as others have
said. One thing I can say, it will keep you dry and right-side up. We've had
occasion to be hit by some pretty daunting boat wakes (including one
double-decker tour boat who apparently wanted to teach me some sort of
lesson) and it rode them with not the slightest worry of capsizing.

Mike

I had a similar experience. My wife & I were in our Greenland II and a
high speed ferry to Catalina Island got way too close to us. I thought we
were dead or at least we were in for a swim. I got the boat turned toward
the wake and it broke completely over my wife and half way up my body in
the rear position. The GII came through with absolutely no trauma (not
like my heartbeat) Just cut through the wave like a fishing trip on a calm
bay. The somewhat weak appearing spraydeck held up just fine. It occured
to me that some people actually search out waves like that for adventure,
(except for the close ferry part). That being said, the GII is a better
double than single. I have the solo setup and you will still want the
rudder if there is a lot of wind out. But if you have some bags of weight
(even water bags) you can trim the boat for good operation and keep it
from blowing around. The upside of the GII is you can carry two or quite a
bit of stuff if you are camping, fishing or snorkeling. I also have an
Aleut and prefer it as a single. My wife tried and liked the Feathercraf
K1 and I like the Klepper Alulite but they are very different boats. The
Folbots are particularly comfortable to me and I like the open style
copckit for comfort and convenience. I also have a wood/fiberglass Pygmy
Osprey kayak but that is a different story....

--
delete "X" for correct email address

Feathercaraft
 

back40 wrote in
:

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:16:43 -0400, Ulli wrote:

I still trying to figure out what the fuzz is all about.
How's the bad guy? Feathercraft, MEC, or somebodyelse?

Both.
So MEC had one left in stock for mail order, (or was it Feathercraft)?

It would be interesting to hear MEC's or Feathercraft's side of the story on
this. This reminds me a bit of an incident that happened several years ago.
I was reading a local newsgroup an apparent very unhappy customer came on
and wrote all kinds of things about a small shop (actually about it's
proprietor) that did audio/tv repairs. Some of the remarks could have
easily been consider slander. Presumably, he assumed that Usenet was a
"safe" forum to spread some bad press, and assumed that the proprietor of
the store would never see it (and, thus, not respond to the allegations).
As it turned out, though, the show was just across from where I lived and I
had been in it many times visiting with the proprietor and checking out his
used gear. I printed off a copy of the article that the unhappy customer
and offered to let him use my computer to respond to the allegations. He
ended up signing up with an ISP and I showed him how to post to the group.
His response was far more rational than the name calling and allegations
that the original poster made, and the "bad press" ended up backfiring
because, now, several people became aware of the shop and a couple of other
people chimed in to offer their own testimony about the business they had
done with the shop.


Gee, is it that unclear in my earlier posting? MEC have one website,
(AFAIK) which covers their stores AND "mail order" or should we say,
phone/Internet order?

Phone/Internet order sites are a dime a dozen these days. In fact, there
are many places where one can put their business online that requires little
more than filling out a web form.

Since their "mail order" (as I explained in earlier posting)had an
ADDITIONAL CHARGE for shipping,

It is very rare to find a source for buying a kayak that *doesn't" charge
for shipping. Granted, shipping a folding kayak is cheaper that a hard
shell boat, but one way or another the cost of shipping has to be absorbed
somewhere, either by an additional charge, or a high "base" price.


However, the salesdroid I spoke to at the store
claimed:
He had never hear of Feathercraft
They had NEVER sold or dealt with Feathercraft Kayaks
They had NEVER advertised the Airline Java Kayak.

That's all possible. A lot of the chain outdoor stores hire young kids that
may or may not know much about their stock. It's likely that the person
that you talked to hasn't even been in a kayak. That's why if you're
looking to buy a kayak, you're likely going to get better service it you go
to a shop that only, or primarily sells kayaks and canoes.

In view of the Internet ad I was staring at during the phone
conversation, this all sounded mighty strange,

Was the Internet ad for the specific store you called, or as it appears from
the web site, more likely for the conglomerate as a whole.

and, given current
economic climate, I asked if the supplier was going under, which only
got evasion as a reply.

If someone said that they had never heard of Feathercraft, it's pretty
likely that they wouldn't know anything about the companies financial
status.


Realizing I was dealing with an idiot, I decided to hell with MEC,
I'll order direct from the Manufacturer. However, when I called them,
the surly individual I spoke with quoted a price much HIGHER than that
which I had earlier seen on their website, and I said, "thank you" and
hung up.

Much HIGHER? You wrote earlier that it was a $100 higher. That's not much
for a $2000 boat. It doesn't indicate it on the MEC site but the discounted
price is likely an attempt to elminate stock that probably only exists at
one or two stores (and not your local store). It's also very likely that
MEC wasn't going to make much money at that discounted rate. I know from
personal experience with a friend that owns a kayak shop that he's taken
losses on boats and sold them for less than he paid for them just so that he
could make room for new models.

That's when I decided it would be prudent to look at OTHER suppliers
who might be more honest/forthright in their telephone transactions.

I haven't seen anything that indicated that either MEC or Feathercraft was
dishonest.

[rest of emotional tirade snipped]