Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

I am interested in purchasing a used Wilderness Systems Arctic Hawk. The boat
performs well, but is hard to wet exit/reenter. The problem lies largely in
the height of the deck. It is 11-inches vs. the 12-inches of my current boat.


I am considering the boat (if I get a DEAL), but only if I can enlarge the
cockpit length to make up for the lack of height. The front needs about
3-inches and the rear needs about 2.

A friend says we can make something up and I agree, but I would prefer to buy
something that already has thigh braces molded into it. If anyone can make a
susggestion for a commercially available cockpit rim that can be glassed in,
that would be great. If someone can suggest a different Greenland style boat,
that would be great, too.

I paddled it twice for a total of 5 hours. I didn't think I would like the
hard chined boat and I thought it would need a skeg, but it really performed
well. It tracked, carved turns, didn't get weathercocked. Actually a better
boat than I remember from a demo paddles some time back.

Mike Goodman
High Point, NC

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

On 4-Dec-2003, (KAYAKFAN) wrote:

I am interested in purchasing a used Wilderness Systems Arctic Hawk. The boat
performs well, but is hard to wet exit/reenter. The problem lies largely in
the height of the deck. It is 11-inches vs. the 12-inches of my current boat.

When I read this, I thought - here's a newbie - then I looked at the name,
Mike Goodman, and said, no... I know you've paddled lots, so I'm surprised
you're having a problem with this one.

Mike, I found the Arctic Hawk cockpit to feel large! Of course, I'm comparing
it to an Ellesmere with an ocean cockpit. It certainly isn't large compared
some WW kayaks I've been in.

I think that you should just practice with the kayak before you start cutting
or changing things. You should have no real problem with this kayak. I
don't know what you're used to, but the AH isn't a tight fit.

When you wet exit, do you pull your knees out between the thigh hooks or
do you just slide out with your legs relatively straight. If you do the
latter, you can slide out of almost any kayak, even a squirt boat.
Think "reverse somersault" for exit and somersault for entry.

Mike

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

On 4-Dec-2003, "Michael Daly" wrote:

It certainly isn't large compared
some WW kayaks I've been in.

Ooops...Make that "isn't _small_ compared to"

Mike

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

Hi Mike,

Have you paddled a Current Designs Caribou? It is a similar boat, but
it is slightly deeper in the cockpit. The hatches are recessed, unlike
the VCP on the Hawk, and the lines look cleaner.

http://www.cdkayak.com/kayaks/comps/caribous.asp

Changing the cockpit coaming on a boat is a royal pain. You need to
grind it out, build a new coaming (mold and all), and find a way to
bond it in. In that you are asking how to do it, I'm going to suggest
you avoid it (if you had the skill to do it, you would not need to
ask). You might contact a local boat repair shop to see if they will
do it for you, but expect to pay at least $500 and probably a lot
more. It is not an easy or fun job, and fiberglass is one of those
things that if you screw up, you have to grind it back out and start
over.

Commercially avaliable rims can be obtained from the manufacturers,
but they are designed for specific boats and will require modifying
the shape of your deck to accomidate the shape of the coaming. It
would be easier to tool your own rim to your existing deck shape than
to try and reform the deck to the coamings shape. By building your own
mold, you can also build in the thighbraces at the right location and
angle.

Unless you feel this is the one and only boat for you, it is not worth
the effort. There are better boats out there, such as the Caribou,
that won't require the work.

Eric

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

Mike,

Chesapeake Light Craft now sells an Arctic Hawk kit. You could make it to
whatever specs you want.

I imagine you could get them to sell you a coaming if that is all you wanted,
but it would be wood.

Brian Blankinship

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

"Michael Daly" wrote in
ble.rogers.com:

On 4-Dec-2003, (KAYAKFAN) wrote:

I am interested in purchasing a used Wilderness Systems Arctic Hawk.
The boat performs well, but is hard to wet exit/reenter. The problem
lies largely in the height of the deck. It is 11-inches vs. the
12-inches of my current boat.

When I read this, I thought - here's a newbie - then I looked at the
name, Mike Goodman, and said, no... I know you've paddled lots, so I'm
surprised you're having a problem with this one.

Mike, I found the Arctic Hawk cockpit to feel large! Of course, I'm
comparing it to an Ellesmere with an ocean cockpit. It certainly isn't
large compared some WW kayaks I've been in.

Comparing the Arctic Hawk cockpit with an ocean cockpit is a bit misleading.
My take on Mike's complaint wasn't about the diameter of the cockpit but
more related to the height of the deck.

I think that you should just practice with the kayak before you start
cutting or changing things. You should have no real problem with this
kayak. I don't know what you're used to, but the AH isn't a tight fit.

I don't think so either but I'm not an especially large person. The Hawk
*is* about as close to a traditional West Greenland design as is
commercially available (cept, maybe an Anas Acuta). They're *supposed* to
be low volume. Practice enough it in, especially doing layback rolls, side
sculling, and balance braces and you'll really appreciate that low deck.

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

Let me start by saying I'm not a wooden boat builder.

I have seen lots of people modify CLC's kits. I don't see why you couldn't
also modify the Hawk kit.


Mike,

Chesapeake Light Craft now sells an Arctic Hawk kit. You could make it
to whatever specs you want.

I imagine you could get them to sell you a coaming if that is all you
wanted, but it would be wood.

I'm not so sure about that. The Arctic Hawk kit is only available as a kit.
Mark Rogers (the designer) licensed the design to CLC but I heard that he
only wanted it available as a kit, and not sold as plans. The cockpit for
the CLC version might not even fit the cockpit for a glass version. The
Superior Kayaks wood version is not identical to the glass version. The
glass version is a half inch shorter and narrower.

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

(Eric Nyre) wrote in
om:

Hi Mike,

Have you paddled a Current Designs Caribou? It is a similar boat, but
it is slightly deeper in the cockpit. The hatches are recessed, unlike
the VCP on the Hawk, and the lines look cleaner.

I've paddled both the Caribou and an Arctic Hawk and didn't find them that
similar. I thought the Hawk tracked better and was faster, while the Caribou
was more manoeverable. The deck on the Caribou is higher, providing more
volume for the knees, but by traditional west Greenland standards even the
Arctic Hawk is high volume.

The last time I paddled a Caribou it felt much bigger than I remembered,
probably because for the last couple of years I've been paddling a much
lower volume boat
(http://caddis.mannlib.cornell.edu/pa.../finished.html)

http://www.cdkayak.com/kayaks/comps/caribous.asp
Unless you feel this is the one and only boat for you, it is not worth
the effort. There are better boats out there, such as the Caribou,
that won't require the work.

The Caribou is better than an Arctic Hawk? That's highly subjective.

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

KAYAKFAN wrote:

I am interested in purchasing a used Wilderness Systems Arctic Hawk. The boat
performs well, but is hard to wet exit/reenter. The problem lies largely in
the height of the deck. It is 11-inches vs. the 12-inches of my current boat.


Eleven inches is a pretty high deck and unless you've got enormous
thighs, you should have no problem getting in and out. If you're used to
boats with higher decks and larger cockpits, I suggest you give the AH
some time. Once you get used to entering and exiting a small cockpit
boat, it's really no bother, it's just a slightly different technique.
You may also find that you like the increased security of the small cockpit.

I am considering the boat (if I get a DEAL), but only if I can enlarge the
cockpit length to make up for the lack of height. The front needs about
3-inches and the rear needs about 2.

A friend says we can make something up and I agree, but I would prefer to buy
something that already has thigh braces molded into it. If anyone can make a
susggestion for a commercially available cockpit rim that can be glassed in,
that would be great.

That isn't going to happen. If you want it bigger, you'll have to build
a custom coaming. Unless you're getting the boat dirt cheap and
absolutely cannot paddle it as-is, it's not worth the hassle.

--
Regards

Brian

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim
 

John Fereira wrote in message ...

The Caribou is better than an Arctic Hawk? That's highly subjective.

Hi John,

Pleasure to meet you.

My statements were in the context of Mike's origional post, in which
he was trying to find another Greenland boat that would be larger than
an Artic Hawk.

My statement:

"There are better boats out there, such as the Caribou,
that won't require the work"

Was specifically in reference to the physical fit of the kayak. There
are boats, such as the Caribou, which will fit him better if the Artic
Hawk is too small.

I'm sorry that I did not spell out every little detail, I assumed it
would have been covered in the context of my reply to Mikes post
(which had nothing to do with handling, if you read it). Most paddlers
know that any general claim of one boat being universally better than
another are nonsense, and I did not realize someone would
misinterperate my post in that way.

Eric

Enlarging Arctic Hawk Cockpit Rim