Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs

The Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs and buy four of
the Challenge yachts.

They cite lack of funds and although I have not seen the actual
release they will sail the four yachts in company and call them Tall
Ship Challenge 1 to 4.

This winter they will stick one brig against the wall and take the
other to the Caribbean. The four yachts will winter in the Canaries.

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"CJB" wrote in message
ups.com...
Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs

The Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs and buy four of
the Challenge yachts.

They cite lack of funds and although I have not seen the actual
release they will sail the four yachts in company and call them Tall
Ship Challenge 1 to 4.

This winter they will stick one brig against the wall and take the
other to the Caribbean. The four yachts will winter in the Canaries.


A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade. It's
a 'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade. It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

That's what it says on Wikipeia at any rate, which cannot always be
taken for gospel, but ought to be good enough for you.

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

On 2007-08-23 09:33:08 -0700, Ronald Raygun
said:

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade. It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after. If the forward mast is taller it's a ketch. (Unless the mizzen
is behind the rudder post, then it's a yawl.) Just like the
brig/brigantine distinction, a barque is a three-masted ship
square-rigged on the main and fore, while a barquentine is only
square-rigged on the fore.

Someone once told me that the boat name and the term for a prison were
etymologically related, maybe from using ship hulks for prisons, but I
can't find any verification of that.

-D

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Dave wrote:

On 2007-08-23 09:33:08 -0700, Ronald Raygun
said:

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade. It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after. If the forward mast is taller it's a ketch. (Unless the mizzen
is behind the rudder post, then it's a yawl.)

If the fore mast is shorter than the main it could also be a schooner.
I gather the distinction between that and a brigantine is that the
schooner has no square sails at all.

Would you have a ketch/yawl with square sails?

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade.
It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

That's what it says on Wikipeia at any rate, which cannot always be
taken for gospel, but ought to be good enough for you.


Is that your final answer?

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Ronald Raygun wrote:
Dave wrote:

Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after. If the forward mast is taller it's a ketch. (Unless the mizzen
is behind the rudder post, then it's a yawl.)

If the fore mast is shorter than the main it could also be a schooner.

ISTR that http://www.mari-cha4.com/ causes some confusion in that it's
described as a schooner because although both masts are the same
*length*, the foremast has slightly greater rake, so is *lower*....

BICBW, Alan
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade.
It's a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

That's what it says on Wikipeia at any rate, which cannot always be
taken for gospel, but ought to be good enough for you.

Is that your final answer?

What is this, "Who Wants to be a Millionaire"?

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

A proper brig is a two masted vessel with square sails on the fore
mast and on the aft mast. It's a brigantine if there are square
sails only on the fore mast.

The word "brig" is *also* sometimes used as short for a brigantine.
I know of no evidence to support your allegation that this shortening
is "lubberly". But it does mean that when you use the term "brig"
without further clarification, it is ambiguous.

The two TSYT ships (if you can be bothered to look them up) carry square
sails on both masts and are therefore proper brigs and *not* brigantines.

Technically, I suppose, it is wrong to call them "ships".

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage
dictionary (so this is not your language being differnt!), and it has a
link to brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship
with fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the
word 'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage
dictionary (so this is not your language being differnt!), and it has
a link to brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy

Wrong! Let me repeat. A brigantine is a two masted vessel, square-rigged
but with fore and aft mainsail.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/d.../d0002703.html

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/brigantine

http://www.geocities.com/cjstein_2000/dictionary.html#B

note: a gaff sail is a fore and aft sail.

Wilbur Hubbard

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage dictionary
(so this is not your language being differnt!), and it has a link to
brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy

Wrong! Let me repeat. A brigantine is a two masted vessel, square-rigged
but with fore and aft mainsail.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/d.../d0002703.html

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/brigantine

http://www.geocities.com/cjstein_2000/dictionary.html#B

note: a gaff sail is a fore and aft sail.

Wilbur Hubbard

There's little point in quoting references on the internet, most of them are
plagiarised from other sources (for example, Google any of the phrases that
support the above arguments, such as "A two-masted sailing ship,
square-rigged on both masts." or "a two-Masted vessel with both masts square
rigged. On the sternmost mast, the main mast, there is also a gaff sail.")

I'm not convinced that there's a hard and fast definition. Sailing vessels
are constantly evolving so they make the most of the extant sailing
conditions, so having a brig (square rigged only) and adding a fore and aft
sail (it's still a brig) seems perfectly reasonable.

Alisdair

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:

On 2007-08-23 09:33:08 -0700, Ronald Raygun
said:

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade.
It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after. If the forward mast is taller it's a ketch. (Unless the mizzen
is behind the rudder post, then it's a yawl.)

If the fore mast is shorter than the main it could also be a schooner.
I gather the distinction between that and a brigantine is that the
schooner has no square sails at all.

Would you have a ketch/yawl with square sails?


http://www.sailbaltimore.org/shiptypes.htm

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship
with fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the
word 'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage
dictionary (so this is not your language being differnt!), and it has
a link to brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy

Wrong! Let me repeat. A brigantine is a two masted vessel, square-rigged
but with fore and aft mainsail.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/d.../d0002703.html


http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/brigantine

http://www.geocities.com/cjstein_2000/dictionary.html#B

note: a gaff sail is a fore and aft sail.

Wilbur Hubbard

Perhaps my snipping is innacurate, or perhaps you are trolling (and no,
I am not referring to piscatorial activities) but it seems to me that
the three links you have given all have seperate definitions for "Brig",
and none of them suggest that it is merely "a lubberly shortening of the
word 'brigantine' ".

This has little to do with whether the Trust is correct to sell its vessel.

Andy

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

On 23 Aug, 17:56, Dave wrote:

Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after.

That's a schooner.

Or can be. All these terms - brig, brigantine, schooner, ship, barque
and so on - were pretty flexible, and meant little more than what the
person using them meant.

Ian

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship
with fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of
the word 'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage
dictionary (so this is not your language being differnt!), and it
has a link to brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy

Wrong! Let me repeat. A brigantine is a two masted vessel,
square-rigged but with fore and aft mainsail.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/d.../d0002703.html
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/brigantine

http://www.geocities.com/cjstein_2000/dictionary.html#B

note: a gaff sail is a fore and aft sail.

Wilbur Hubbard

Perhaps my snipping is innacurate, or perhaps you are trolling (and
no, I am not referring to piscatorial activities) but it seems to me
that the three links you have given all have seperate definitions for
"Brig", and none of them suggest that it is merely "a lubberly
shortening of the word 'brigantine' ".

This has little to do with whether the Trust is correct to sell its
vessel.

Andy

I Googled some pics of the Trust's brigs (they are brigs according to
definition because the pictures showed they are both square-rigged on
both masts with no fore-and-aft sails on the masts) and they are nice
looking boats. But, whose to say the Trust doesn't have good reason to
sell whatever boats they want to sell

Wilbur Hubbard

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

On 2007-08-23 10:33:26 -0700, Ronald Raygun
said:

Dave wrote:
Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after. If the forward mast is taller it's a ketch. (Unless the mizzen
is behind the rudder post, then it's a yawl.)

If the fore mast is shorter than the main it could also be a schooner.
I gather the distinction between that and a brigantine is that the
schooner has no square sails at all.

Oh! I was going to mention schooners, too. A schooner can have a square
topsail, but I guess it isn't a schooner any more if it has a square
course.

Now on to xebecs, carracks, smacks, and hoys..

-D

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I Googled some pics of the Trust's brigs (they are brigs according to
definition because the pictures showed they are both square-rigged on
both masts with no fore-and-aft sails on the masts) and they are nice
looking boats.

Must try harder on the old observational skills, matey.

They *do* have a fore-and-aft sail on the after mast. It seems to be
a common feature of virtualy all sizeable vessels of this era that at
least the after mast always has at least one gaff sail. One must
presume there must have been a technical reason for this.

The distinction between brig and brigantine is simply whether the
after mast is *exclusively* fore-and-aft or *also* has square sails.

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I Googled some pics of the Trust's brigs (they are brigs according to
definition because the pictures showed they are both square-rigged on
both masts with no fore-and-aft sails on the masts) and they are nice
looking boats.

Must try harder on the old observational skills, matey.

They *do* have a fore-and-aft sail on the after mast. It seems to be
a common feature of virtualy all sizeable vessels of this era that at
least the after mast always has at least one gaff sail. One must
presume there must have been a technical reason for this.

The distinction between brig and brigantine is simply whether the
after mast is *exclusively* fore-and-aft or *also* has square sails.


The photos I Googled showed both of them sailing together and neither on
had a fore and aft sail on the mainmast. Both masts were square-rigged
from top to bottom.

http://www.tallshipsyouthtrust.net/d...t=693&doc=6823

This means they are rightly called 'brigs.' If they were fitted with a
gaff mainsail at some time earlier or later then they should be called
'brigantines.' See the link with illustrations I posted further up this
thread.

I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

The photos I Googled showed both of them sailing together and neither on
had a fore and aft sail on the mainmast. Both masts were square-rigged
from top to bottom.

http://www.tallshipsyouthtrust.net/d...t=693&doc=6823

That picture shows them from ahead which makes it difficult to see
whether the gaff sails on the main masts are present.

Go to their homepage http://www.tallshipsyouthtrust.net and there
is a photo of one of them from less directly ahead, where you can
clearly see a gaff sail on the after mast (and the mainsail, i.e.
the bottom-most square sail on the main mast, is present, but furled).

On the menu along the left, click on "The Ships" (which takes you to
the page you mentioned, with the photo of the two side by side), and
then on "Our Tall Ships". This takes you to a page which contains a
photo from the quarter, which makes it a bit clearer.

On the same page there is also a sail plan with names, and the gaff
sail is identified as a "spanker".

This means they are rightly called 'brigs.'

We're agreed on that, at least.

If they were fitted with a
gaff mainsail at some time earlier or later then they should be called
'brigantines.'

Not if the gaff sails were there *as well as* the square sails.

A brigantine has no (provision to set) square sails on the after mast
at all, but if a brig (which of course has square sails on both masts)
also carries a spanker (as it usually does), that doesn't make it a
brigantine.

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
k...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

The photos I Googled showed both of them sailing together and neither
on
had a fore and aft sail on the mainmast. Both masts were
square-rigged
from top to bottom.

http://www.tallshipsyouthtrust.net/d...t=693&doc=6823

That picture shows them from ahead which makes it difficult to see
whether the gaff sails on the main masts are present.

Go to their homepage http://www.tallshipsyouthtrust.net and there
is a photo of one of them from less directly ahead, where you can
clearly see a gaff sail on the after mast (and the mainsail, i.e.
the bottom-most square sail on the main mast, is present, but furled).

But, on the picture I linked to one can see square sails all the way
down to the deck. You cannot run a squaresail and a fore and aft
mainsail on the mainmast at the same time.


On the menu along the left, click on "The Ships" (which takes you to
the page you mentioned, with the photo of the two side by side), and
then on "Our Tall Ships". This takes you to a page which contains a
photo from the quarter, which makes it a bit clearer.

On the same page there is also a sail plan with names, and the gaff
sail is identified as a "spanker".

This means they are rightly called 'brigs.'

We're agreed on that, at least.

If they were fitted with a
gaff mainsail at some time earlier or later then they should be
called
'brigantines.'

Not if the gaff sails were there *as well as* the square sails.

Not so. A brigantine often flies topsails above the gaff mainsail on the
mainmast provided the wind isn't too stiff.


A brigantine has no (provision to set) square sails on the after mast
at all, but if a brig (which of course has square sails on both masts)
also carries a spanker (as it usually does), that doesn't make it a
brigantine.

POPPYCOCK! The mainsail does not preclude the use of square rigged
topsails. Look at the illustrations I linked to in another post and
you'll see it for yourself.

Wilbur Hubbard

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
k...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

The photos I Googled showed both of them sailing together and neither
on
had a fore and aft sail on the mainmast. Both masts were
square-rigged
from top to bottom.

http://www.tallshipsyouthtrust.net/d...t=693&doc=6823

That picture shows them from ahead which makes it difficult to see
whether the gaff sails on the main masts are present.

Go to their homepage http://www.tallshipsyouthtrust.net and there
is a photo of one of them from less directly ahead, where you can
clearly see a gaff sail on the after mast (and the mainsail, i.e.
the bottom-most square sail on the main mast, is present, but furled).

But, on the picture I linked to one can see square sails all the way
down to the deck.

So what? We've already agreed they're brigs, not brigantines, and
the owners also describe them as brigs. It's a matter of fact that
they are equipped to carry up to five square sails on the main mast,
and a spanker as well.

You cannot run a squaresail and a fore and aft
mainsail on the mainmast at the same time.

Says who? There's no reason you can't have the spanker and the mainsail
(this being the bottom-most squaresail on the main mast) set at the same
time. It won't be optimal, of course, since the spanker would probably
be blanking half the mainsail, which is why -I suppose- you would often
tend to see the main furled when the spanker is up (and in principle
vice versa, but perhaps not in practice).

If they were fitted with a
gaff mainsail at some time earlier or later then they should be
called 'brigantines.'

Not if the gaff sails were there *as well as* the square sails.

Not so. A brigantine often flies topsails above the gaff mainsail on the
mainmast provided the wind isn't too stiff.

If it *can* fly *any* squaresails on the mainmast then it's not a
brigantine but a brig.

A brigantine has no (provision to set) square sails on the after mast
at all, but if a brig (which of course has square sails on both masts)
also carries a spanker (as it usually does), that doesn't make it a
brigantine.

POPPYCOCK! The mainsail does not preclude the use of square rigged
topsails.

Of course it doesn't, but if the mainmast has any squaresails on it
*at all*, top, bottom, or middle, then it's a brig. A brigantine's
main mast is *always exclusively* fore and aft rigged and never ever
carries any square sails at all at all.

Look at the illustrations I linked to in another post and
you'll see it for yourself.

Which one?

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
So what? We've already agreed they're brigs, not brigantines, and
the owners also describe them as brigs. It's a matter of fact that
they are equipped to carry up to five square sails on the main mast,
and a spanker as well.


No WE haven't established any such thing. We don't agree here. I say if
it has a fore and aft mainsail then it's a brigantine. You say it's a
brig. I say it's a brig only if it's square rigged all the way.


Says who? There's no reason you can't have the spanker and the
mainsail
(this being the bottom-most squaresail on the main mast) set at the
same
time. It won't be optimal, of course, since the spanker would
probably
be blanking half the mainsail, which is why -I suppose- you would
often
tend to see the main furled when the spanker is up (and in principle
vice versa, but perhaps not in practice).


I should have said you DO NOT use them both at the same time. The
picture of the two brigs sailing together clearly show square rigged on
both masts all the way to the deck.

If it *can* fly *any* squaresails on the mainmast then it's not a
brigantine but a brig.

Wrong! the only thing that makes it a brigantine is the fact it carries
a gaff mainsail. If it carries no gaff mainsail then it's a brig.


A brigantine has no (provision to set) square sails on the after
mast
at all, but if a brig (which of course has square sails on both
masts)
also carries a spanker (as it usually does), that doesn't make it a
brigantine.

Wrong again. We've all seen pictures of brigantines using square sails
above the gaff main. This doesn't make them a brig because a brig
carries no gaff mainsail.


POPPYCOCK! The mainsail does not preclude the use of square rigged
topsails.

Of course it doesn't, but if the mainmast has any squaresails on it
*at all*, top, bottom, or middle, then it's a brig. A brigantine's
main mast is *always exclusively* fore and aft rigged and never ever
carries any square sails at all at all.

I disagree. By defintion a brig carries no fore and aft sails. By
definition a brigantine carries a fore and aft mainsail.

Which one?


I can't find it. It must not have got posted for some reason. Maybe I
can find it again. Probably deleted it or something when busy putting a
boot up Martin's arse.

Wilbur Hubbard

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
So what? We've already agreed they're brigs, not brigantines, and
the owners also describe them as brigs. It's a matter of fact that
they are equipped to carry up to five square sails on the main mast,
and a spanker as well.

No WE haven't established any such thing. We don't agree here.

What do you disagree with? That the two TSYT ships are brigs,
or that it's a fact that they can carry 5 squares and a spanker
on their main masts? The TSYT website confirms both!

I say if it has a fore and aft mainsail then it's a brigantine.

I'd agree.

You say it's a brig.

No.

I say it's a brig only if it's square rigged all the way.

I'd disagree.

A spanker isn't a gaff mainsail, it's much smaller than a mainsail on
a brigantine would be. I'm not sure what its exact purpose is, but
I guess it may be to help keep the vessel out of irons should it
attempt to tack other than by wearing ship.

I should have said you DO NOT use them both at the same time. The
picture of the two brigs sailing together

So you *DO* agree they TSYT vessels are brigs.

clearly show square rigged on
both masts all the way to the deck.

Indeed they do, but you can't tell from that picture whether the
spankers are also set (or if not set, then at least present). Are
you trying to imply that if they were, it would make a difference?

Are you trying to imply that the other pictures (which show views from
a better angle, and where you can see that the spanker *is* set
and the square main is present but not set) are of brigantines?

These other pictures are of (one of) the *same* ships! It doesn't
change from being a brig to being a brigantine simply by putting up
a different partial selection of its available sails, such as by
setting the spanker, just like a cutter does not become a sloop when
it takes down one of its two jibs.

What makes it a brig is that it *has* a square mainsail (you say)
or that it *has* any square sails on the main mast (I say) available
to set, not whether it is (or they are) actually set at any particular
moment, just as what makes a one-masted boat a cutter is that it *can*
set two jibs.

If it *can* fly *any* squaresails on the mainmast then it's not a
brigantine but a brig.

Wrong! the only thing that makes it a brigantine is the fact it carries
a gaff mainsail. If it carries no gaff mainsail then it's a brig.

Then we disagree. The definitions I've seen refer to whether the
main mast (which is the after mast) *is square rigged* (which I take
to mean that it's capable of setting square sails), not whether it
has a square mainsail (being the bottom sail on the main mast).

Show me an authoritative independent definition which supports your
version.

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

On 2007-08-24 17:33:32 -0700, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

Wrong! the only thing that makes it a brigantine is the fact it carries
a gaff mainsail. If it carries no gaff mainsail then it's a brig.

Brig:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Washington

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Dave" wrote in message
news:2007082522413516807-none@nowherecom...
On 2007-08-24 17:33:32 -0700, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

Wrong! the only thing that makes it a brigantine is the fact it
carries a gaff mainsail. If it carries no gaff mainsail then it's a
brig.

Brig:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Washington


Nope! Since she carries a gaff mainsail that makes her a brigantine.
Brigs carry ONLY square sails on both masts.

Wilbur Hubbard

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
news:2007082522413516807-none@nowherecom...
On 2007-08-24 17:33:32 -0700, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:
Wrong! the only thing that makes it a brigantine is the fact it
carries a gaff mainsail. If it carries no gaff mainsail then it's a
brig.

Brig:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Washington

Nope! Since she carries a gaff mainsail that makes her a brigantine.
Brigs carry ONLY square sails on both masts.

I don't believe this is true, and as you have failed to accede to my
request for independent authoritaive corroboration of your mistaken
interpretation, I conclude that you to take part in this discussion
like a grown-up, and that I was wrong to give the benefit of the
doubt, thinking that you might - for once - not be trolling.

Your behaviour just doesn't cut the mustard. I should have listened
to Martin!

Goodbye.

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
k...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
news:2007082522413516807-none@nowherecom...
On 2007-08-24 17:33:32 -0700, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:
Wrong! the only thing that makes it a brigantine is the fact it
carries a gaff mainsail. If it carries no gaff mainsail then it's a
brig.

Brig:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Washington

Nope! Since she carries a gaff mainsail that makes her a brigantine.
Brigs carry ONLY square sails on both masts.

I don't believe this is true, and as you have failed to accede to my
request for independent authoritaive corroboration of your mistaken
interpretation, I conclude that you to take part in this discussion
like a grown-up, and that I was wrong to give the benefit of the
doubt, thinking that you might - for once - not be trolling.

Your behaviour just doesn't cut the mustard. I should have listened
to Martin!

Goodbye.

I guess you didn't bother reading the post way up the thread where I
linked to three different dictionary definitions that support my
contentions. Or, perhaps you did and you've concluded you lost the
argument so you're acting like you're giving up because I didn't argue
your way or do further research for you. Well, whoop-de-doo. Good
riddance to ya. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Wilbur Hubbard

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
k...

Your behaviour just doesn't cut the mustard. I should have listened
to Martin!


Go ahead and listen to the netKKKop. Martin is a little whining snitch
and a girly-man to boot. He never discussed anything in his life. He's
set himself as group moderator. Typical behavior from an anal retentive
loser.

Wilbur Hubbard

Tall Ships Youth Trust is to sell one of its brigs
 

On Aug 26, 4:06 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message

k...



Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
news:2007082522413516807-none@nowherecom...
On 2007-08-24 17:33:32 -0700, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:
Wrong! the only thing that makes it a brigantine is the fact it
carries a gaff mainsail. If it carries no gaff mainsail then it's a
brig.

Brig:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Washington

Nope! Since she carries a gaff mainsail that makes her a brigantine.
Brigs carry ONLY square sails on both masts.

I don't believe this is true, and as you have failed to accede to my
request for independent authoritaive corroboration of your mistaken
interpretation, I conclude that you to take part in this discussion
like a grown-up, and that I was wrong to give the benefit of the
doubt, thinking that you might - for once - not be trolling.

Your behaviour just doesn't cut the mustard. I should have listened
to Martin!

Goodbye.

I guess you didn't bother reading the post way up the thread where I
linked to three different dictionary definitions that support my
contentions. Or, perhaps you did and you've concluded you lost the
argument so you're acting like you're giving up because I didn't argue
your way or do further research for you. Well, whoop-de-doo. Good
riddance to ya. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur the Chapman guide and the Annapolis guide to seamanship both
say you are wrong. Plus a Spanker is not a mainsail. It's a brig
even if it has a for-and-aft rigged sail as long as it is not the
main. When I get home I will try to remember to get the exact
verbiage.