53-42
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 08:10:23 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

So far this one has convinced me.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html


Yup. It could have been so simple.

Eisboch

are you guys dense?

Summary
In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his
birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a
natural-born citizen.

That is NOT a copy of the original.

It doesn't matter. In the eyes of the law (and that's all that matters
here) the document referenced in Duck's post satisfies the requirement
of a challenge to his natural born status.

It's too bad my wife and I had to fight tooth and nail to get "proof"
that our oldest son was a citizen of the USA, even though born overseas
while I was serving active duty in the military. Requests for help to
resolve this issue to our local, "veteran sensitive" United States
Senator John Kerry went totally unanswered.

BTW .... he may be facing a serious challenge to his 24 year "career" in
the Senate on Tuesday.
I hope like hell the voters give him the bum's rush out the door.

Eisboch


Kerry has a 30-point lead in the average polls on that race. Is that a
serious challenge?


The local talk is that his challenger, Jeff Beatty, may pull off a surprise.
I hope so, but am realistic enough to know how it "works" up here.

We need new blood in Congress and Kerry has a bit of explaining to do
regarding the Wall Street mess.

Eisboch

53-42
 

Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the documentation
you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born citizen of
the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an implied
requirement that you provide proof that you meet the requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

53-42
 

BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the documentation
you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born citizen of
the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an implied
requirement that you provide proof that you meet the requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was a
citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell Weicker, a
U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for the nomination in
1980. He was a born abroad, too.

53-42
 

Tim wrote:
On Nov 3, 8:08 pm, WaIIy wrote:
On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 20:36:50 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 19:21:10 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 08:10:23 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...
So far this one has convinced me.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html
Yup. It could have been so simple.
Eisboch
are you guys dense?
Summary
In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his
birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a
natural-born citizen.
That is NOT a copy of the original.
I think the Annenberg folks are a non-partisan group and they seem
convinced
that they have seen, touched and photographed a *certified* copy (NOT the
original) of Obama's birth record. a certified copy in this format is
accepted by the State Department for passport purposes.
We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined
and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets
all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S.
citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature
are
false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as
"supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in
the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html
The following photos are linked on the above page:
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_7.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_1.jpg
That is NOT a copy of the original.
Not to defend Obama's cause, but it doesn't have to be the original or even
a copy of the original to be a legal, binding certificate. It legally
satisfies any requirement of "proof" of birth (and location).
Eisboch
I agree with you on that point.

He is able to produce a certified copy of the original, yet refuses.

Why would that be?

A question of curiosity.

If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the
process of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a
natural born U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to
resign the Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or
obstruction of justice?

This is something I've never given thought to until now.


Just curious. I don't know.

Hopefully charged with fraud, impeached, and removed from office. But,
the problem becomes what do we do with Biden.

53-42
 

Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the documentation
you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born citizen
of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an implied
requirement that you provide proof that you meet the requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was a
citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell Weicker, a
U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for the nomination in
1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the words
any way you want.

53-42
 

On Nov 4, 6:14*am, BAR wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Nov 3, 8:08 pm, WaIIy wrote:
On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 20:36:50 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 19:21:10 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
"WaIIy" wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 08:10:23 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message
news:UKudnaZRJtNxbpPUnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@gigan ews.com...
So far this one has convinced me.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html
Yup. *It could have been so simple.
Eisboch
are you guys dense?
Summary
In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his
birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a
natural-born citizen.
That is NOT a copy of the original.
I think the Annenberg folks are a non-partisan group and they seem
convinced
that they have seen, touched and photographed a *certified* copy (NOT the
original) of Obama's birth record. *a certified copy in this format is
accepted by the State Department for passport purposes.
We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined
and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets
all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S.
citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature
are
false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as
"supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in
the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html
The following photos are linked on the above page:
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_7.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_1.jpg
That is NOT a copy of the original.
Not to defend Obama's cause, but it doesn't have to be the original or even
a copy of the original to be a legal, binding certificate. * It legally
satisfies any requirement of "proof" of birth (and location).
Eisboch
I agree with you on that point.

He is able to produce a certified copy of the original, yet refuses.

Why would that be?

A question of curiosity.

If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the
process of the Supreme Court ; *it was found out that he was not a
natural born U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to
resign the Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or
obstruction of justice?

This is something I've never given thought to until now.

Just curious. I don't know.

Hopefully charged with fraud, impeached, and removed from office. But,
the problem becomes what do we do with Biden.

Eh, I'm not a fan, but I could put up with Joe...

53-42
 

On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?

I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup.

The courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this
issue, as they should. I would also point out, this does not only
concern Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born" status
is not a certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the voters
decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621

53-42
 

wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?

I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup.

The courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this
issue, as they should. I would also point out, this does not only
concern Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born" status
is not a certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the voters
decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621

If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

53-42
 

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 07:57:32 -0500, BAR wrote:


http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

Read the above link. There are complex legal issues involved. And you
think I'm going to answer either of the above questions? No way.

53-42
 

BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born citizen
of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an implied
requirement that you provide proof that you meet the requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was a
citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell Weicker,
a U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for the nomination
in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the words
any way you want.


Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."

53-42
 

"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?

I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup. The
courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this issue,
as they should. I would also point out, this does not only concern
Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born" status is not a
certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621

If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a natural
born US citizen?


The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790 that
"And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond
the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as
natural born citizens." In addition George Washington was president of the
Constitutional Convention and President of the United States when this bill
became law. If Washington disagreed with this definition, he could have
vetoed this bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

53-42
 

D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?
I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup. The
courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this issue,
as they should. I would also point out, this does not only concern
Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born" status is not a
certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a natural
born US citizen?


The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790 that
"And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond
the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as
natural born citizens." In addition George Washington was president of the
Constitutional Convention and President of the United States when this bill
became law. If Washington disagreed with this definition, he could have
vetoed this bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen




Gosharoonie, that means that Obama, even if he were born in Kenya of a
mom who was a U.S. citizen is...a natural born citizen...

snerk

53-42
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the
process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural
born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?
I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup. The
courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this issue,
as they should. I would also point out, this does not only concern
Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born" status is not
a certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?


The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790
that "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born
beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be
considered as natural born citizens." In addition George Washington was
president of the Constitutional Convention and President of the United
States when this bill became law. If Washington disagreed with this
definition, he could have vetoed this bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen


Gosharoonie, that means that Obama, even if he were born in Kenya of a mom
who was a U.S. citizen is...a natural born citizen...

snerk

Not quite. "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be
born beyond the sea..."

It reads children of citizens, plural.

53-42
 

On Nov 4, 7:10*am, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 07:57:32 -0500, BAR wrote:
http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

Read the above link. *There are complex legal issues involved. *And you
think I'm going to answer either of the above questions? *No way.

Yes, there are complex legal issues involved, And no, I don't believe
I'm missing the point. My question[s], even though hypothetical would
or at least should have a concrete answer.

53-42
 

On Nov 4, 7:16*am, Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born citizen
of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an implied
requirement that you provide proof that you meet the requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?

Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing proof..

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was a
citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell Weicker,
a U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for the nomination
in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the words
any way you want.

Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Harry, Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have had
their place of birth questioned, and if so those who haven't provided
"proof"

53-42
 

wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 07:57:32 -0500, BAR wrote:


http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

Read the above link. There are complex legal issues involved. And you
think I'm going to answer either of the above questions? No way.

One occurs on US soil and one does not.

53-42
 

Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born citizen
of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an implied
requirement that you provide proof that you meet the requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was a
citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell Weicker,
a U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for the
nomination in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the
words any way you want.


Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."

The question on the table is where was Obama born? All we want to see is
a copy of his original birth certificate, not a printout from a database.

53-42
 

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:27:17 -0500, D.Duck wrote:


It reads children of citizens, plural.

Yeah, but that's been updated.

" When one parent was a US citizen and the other a foreign national, the
US citizen parent must have resided in the US for a total of 10 years
prior to the birth of the child, with five of the years after the age of
14. An exception for people serving in the military was created by
considering time spent outside the US on military duty as time spent in
the US."

From:
http://www.visalaw.com/01mar2/12mar201.html

But then, apparently, Obama's Mom was young when she had him. So,
there's a question about the five years after the age of 14.

This stuff will give you a headache.

53-42
 

Tim wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:16 am, Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.
There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born citizen
of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an implied
requirement that you provide proof that you meet the requirement.
There is, eh? Got cites?
Article II, Section 1.
Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing proof.
Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was a
citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell Weicker,
a U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for the nomination
in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.
What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the words
any way you want.
Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Harry, Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have had
their place of birth questioned, and if so those who haven't provided
"proof"


Questioned by who?

Right-wing droolers? Who cares?

53-42
 

BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born
citizen of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an
implied requirement that you provide proof that you meet the
requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was a
citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell
Weicker, a U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for the
nomination in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the
words any way you want.


Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."

The question on the table is where was Obama born? All we want to see is
a copy of his original birth certificate, not a printout from a database.


No one cares what you want. Try getting used to that, eh?

53-42
 

D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?
I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup. The
courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this issue,
as they should. I would also point out, this does not only concern
Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born" status is not a
certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a natural
born US citizen?


The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790 that
"And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond
the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as
natural born citizens." In addition George Washington was president of the
Constitutional Convention and President of the United States when this bill
became law. If Washington disagreed with this definition, he could have
vetoed this bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen



Correct me if I am wrong but, modification to the US Constitution
requires an amendment not a redefinition of a term.

53-42
 

Boater wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the
process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural
born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?
I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup.
The courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this
issue, as they should. I would also point out, this does not only
concern Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born"
status is not a certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the
voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you
a natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?


The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790
that "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be
born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall
be considered as natural born citizens." In addition George Washington
was president of the Constitutional Convention and President of the
United States when this bill became law. If Washington disagreed with
this definition, he could have vetoed this bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen



Gosharoonie, that means that Obama, even if he were born in Kenya of a
mom who was a U.S. citizen is...a natural born citizen...

I'd like to challenge that law. And, I have legal standing to do so.

53-42
 

BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the
process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural
born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?
I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup.
The courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to
this issue, as they should. I would also point out, this does not
only concern Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural
born" status is not a certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves,
let the voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you
a natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?


The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790
that "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be
born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall
be considered as natural born citizens." In addition George
Washington was president of the Constitutional Convention and
President of the United States when this bill became law. If
Washington disagreed with this definition, he could have vetoed this
bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen



Gosharoonie, that means that Obama, even if he were born in Kenya of a
mom who was a U.S. citizen is...a natural born citizen...

I'd like to challenge that law. And, I have legal standing to do so.


But not the smarts. Or the money. Tough tittie.

53-42
 

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 05:37:03 -0800, Tim wrote:


Yes, there are complex legal issues involved, And no, I don't believe
I'm missing the point. My question[s], even though hypothetical would or
at least should have a concrete answer.

Sorry, but it beats me. I'm guessing the Presidential Succession Act
would be used.

53-42
 

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 05:39:05 -0800, Tim wrote:


Harry, Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have had
their place of birth questioned, and if so those who haven't provided
"proof"

Chester Arthur. Many believe he was born in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester..._and_education

53-42
 

Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born
citizen of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is
an implied requirement that you provide proof that you meet the
requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing
proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was
a citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell
Weicker, a U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for
the nomination in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the
words any way you want.


Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."

The question on the table is where was Obama born? All we want to see
is a copy of his original birth certificate, not a printout from a
database.


No one cares what you want. Try getting used to that, eh?

If no one cares what I want, why do you keep responding to my posts?

53-42
 

53-42
 

BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born
citizen of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is
an implied requirement that you provide proof that you meet the
requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing
proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was
a citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell
Weicker, a U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for
the nomination in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the
words any way you want.


Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."

The question on the table is where was Obama born? All we want to see
is a copy of his original birth certificate, not a printout from a
database.


No one cares what you want. Try getting used to that, eh?

If no one cares what I want, why do you keep responding to my posts?



You're sort of a rec.boats toilet seat...something upon which to sit and
take a dump.

53-42
 

wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:46:30 -0500, BAR wrote:

Boater wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the
process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural
born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?
I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup.
The courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this
issue, as they should. I would also point out, this does not only
concern Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born"
status is not a certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the
voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you
a natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790
that "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be
born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall
be considered as natural born citizens." In addition George Washington
was president of the Constitutional Convention and President of the
United States when this bill became law. If Washington disagreed with
this definition, he could have vetoed this bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen


Gosharoonie, that means that Obama, even if he were born in Kenya of a
mom who was a U.S. citizen is...a natural born citizen...
I'd like to challenge that law. And, I have legal standing to do so.

You don't have a legal standing to do squat until a final ruling that
you have such standing.

Let us know when you prevail - or even get a preliminary hearing.


Sure I have legal standing. I am a US citizen, a citizen of one of the
several states and a legal voter. How much more standing can I have?
Just because a judge doesn't want to hear the case and issues an opinion
that I don't have standing doesn't mean I don't have standing to
challenge Obama's ability to comply with the provisions of Article II,
Section 1 of the US Constitution.

53-42
 

BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:46:30 -0500, BAR wrote:

Boater wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the
process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a
natural born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?
I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will
be elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a
coup. The courts have consistently maintained a hands off
approach to this issue, as they should. I would also point out,
this does not only concern Obama, it also concerns McCain.
McCain's "natural born" status is not a certainty. Let's make it
easy on ourselves, let the voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are
you a natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of
1790 that "And the children of citizens of the United States that
may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United
States, shall be considered as natural born citizens." In addition
George Washington was president of the Constitutional Convention
and President of the United States when this bill became law. If
Washington disagreed with this definition, he could have vetoed
this bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen


Gosharoonie, that means that Obama, even if he were born in Kenya of
a mom who was a U.S. citizen is...a natural born citizen...
I'd like to challenge that law. And, I have legal standing to do so.

You don't have a legal standing to do squat until a final ruling that
you have such standing.
Let us know when you prevail - or even get a preliminary hearing.


Sure I have legal standing. I am a US citizen, a citizen of one of the
several states and a legal voter. How much more standing can I have?
Just because a judge doesn't want to hear the case and issues an opinion
that I don't have standing doesn't mean I don't have standing to
challenge Obama's ability to comply with the provisions of Article II,
Section 1 of the US Constitution.



Stupid is as stupid posts.

53-42
 

wrote in message
t...
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:27:17 -0500, D.Duck wrote:


It reads children of citizens, plural.

Yeah, but that's been updated.

" When one parent was a US citizen and the other a foreign national, the
US citizen parent must have resided in the US for a total of 10 years
prior to the birth of the child, with five of the years after the age of
14. An exception for people serving in the military was created by
considering time spent outside the US on military duty as time spent in
the US."

From:
http://www.visalaw.com/01mar2/12mar201.html

But then, apparently, Obama's Mom was young when she had him. So,
there's a question about the five years after the age of 14.

This stuff will give you a headache.

Yep, my head hurts, I'm going to vote.

53-42
 

"BAR" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the
process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural
born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?
I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup. The
courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this issue,
as they should. I would also point out, this does not only concern
Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born" status is not
a certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?


The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790
that "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born
beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be
considered as natural born citizens." In addition George Washington was
president of the Constitutional Convention and President of the United
States when this bill became law. If Washington disagreed with this
definition, he could have vetoed this bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

Correct me if I am wrong but, modification to the US Constitution requires
an amendment not a redefinition of a term.

After tracking down a few more links on the *natural born* subject, I find
that what appears to be a simple definition, ain't.

53-42
 

Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born
citizen of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is
an implied requirement that you provide proof that you meet
the requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing
proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He
was a citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico).
Lowell Weicker, a U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief
run for the nomination in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the
words any way you want.


Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."

The question on the table is where was Obama born? All we want to
see is a copy of his original birth certificate, not a printout from
a database.


No one cares what you want. Try getting used to that, eh?

If no one cares what I want, why do you keep responding to my posts?



You're sort of a rec.boats toilet seat...something upon which to sit and
take a dump.

You can't help yourself.

53-42
 

BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born
citizen of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there
is an implied requirement that you provide proof that you
meet the requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing
proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born."
George Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in
1968. He was a citizen of the United States born abroad (in
Mexico). Lowell Weicker, a U.S. Senator from my home state, made
a brief run for the nomination in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the
words any way you want.


Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."

The question on the table is where was Obama born? All we want to
see is a copy of his original birth certificate, not a printout
from a database.


No one cares what you want. Try getting used to that, eh?

If no one cares what I want, why do you keep responding to my posts?



You're sort of a rec.boats toilet seat...something upon which to sit
and take a dump.

You can't help yourself.


It's hard to resist an invitation from a toilet seat.

53-42
 

Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born citizen
of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an implied
requirement that you provide proof that you meet the requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was a
citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell Weicker,
a U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for the
nomination in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the
words any way you want.


Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."

Wouldn't it be easier if you provided a list of the presidents who
couldn't or wouldn't provide proof of natural US citizenship? I'm having
a hard time thinking of any right now.

53-42
 

Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the
documentation you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born
citizen of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an
implied requirement that you provide proof that you meet the
requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was a
citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell
Weicker, a U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for the
nomination in 1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the
words any way you want.


Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have
provided "proof."

Wouldn't it be easier if you provided a list of the presidents who
couldn't or wouldn't provide proof of natural US citizenship? I'm having
a hard time thinking of any right now.


D'oh.

53-42
 

Boater wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the
process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural
born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?
I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup.
The courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this
issue, as they should. I would also point out, this does not only
concern Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born"
status is not a certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the
voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you
a natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?


The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790
that "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be
born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall
be considered as natural born citizens." In addition George Washington
was president of the Constitutional Convention and President of the
United States when this bill became law. If Washington disagreed with
this definition, he could have vetoed this bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen



Gosharoonie, that means that Obama, even if he were born in Kenya of a
mom who was a U.S. citizen is...a natural born citizen...

snerk

At least half of him is? Just joking WAFA. Don't make a big deal out of it.

53-42
 

D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:39:58 -0800, Tim wrote:


If Barry O is elected POTUS, and after it was taken through the
process
of the Supreme Court ; it was found out that he was not a natural
born
U.S citizen.... what would happen? Would he be forced to resign the
Presidency due to fraud, withholding evidence and/or obstruction of
justice?
I think you may be missing the point. If he is elected, he will be
elected by the *people*. Any messing with that is called a coup. The
courts have consistently maintained a hands off approach to this issue,
as they should. I would also point out, this does not only concern
Obama, it also concerns McCain. McCain's "natural born" status is not
a certainty. Let's make it easy on ourselves, let the voters decide.

http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1157621
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the
Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790
that "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born
beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be
considered as natural born citizens." In addition George Washington was
president of the Constitutional Convention and President of the United
States when this bill became law. If Washington disagreed with this
definition, he could have vetoed this bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

Gosharoonie, that means that Obama, even if he were born in Kenya of a mom
who was a U.S. citizen is...a natural born citizen...

snerk

Not quite. "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be
born beyond the sea..."

It reads children of citizens, plural.


That argument wont hold up. As much as I would like it to.

53-42
 

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:37:03 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Nov 4, 7:10*am, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 07:57:32 -0500, BAR wrote:
http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheor...el-j-chin.html
If you are born of US citizens in a local hospital in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

If you are born of US citizens in a US embassy in France are you a
natural born US citizen?

Read the above link. *There are complex legal issues involved. *And you
think I'm going to answer either of the above questions? *No way.

Yes, there are complex legal issues involved, And no, I don't believe
I'm missing the point. My question[s], even though hypothetical would
or at least should have a concrete answer.

FWIW, my older daughter was born in Bad Kreuznach, Germany. She had dual
citizenship until age 21. At that point she chose to be a US citizen, even
though Harry was living in the country at the time.
--
A Harry Krause truism:

"It's not a *baby* kicking, beautiful bride, it's just a fetus!"
[A Narcissistic Hypocrite]

53-42
 

"BAR" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:

There is no Constitutional requirement to provide the documentation
you want.

There is a Constitutional requirement to be a natural born citizen
of the US of A to be the President. Therefore there is an implied
requirement that you provide proof that you meet the requirement.

There is, eh? Got cites?


Article II, Section 1.

Wrong, Palin-breath. There's not a word in there about providing proof.

Further, there are questions over the term "natural born." George
Romney, for example, sought his party's nomination in 1968. He was a
citizen of the United States born abroad (in Mexico). Lowell Weicker, a
U.S. Senator from my home state, made a brief run for the nomination in
1980. He was a born abroad, too.

What's your point? Article II, Section 1 states the requirement.
Implicit in the requirement is providing proof. You can parse the words
any way you want.


Yeah? Please provide us with a list of those Presidents who have provided
"proof."

The question on the table is where was Obama born? All we want to see is a
copy of his original birth certificate, not a printout from a database.

Wait until after the election, and then travel to Washington....all the way
to the White House (that does have a nice ring to it).
Tell them you want proof and won't leave until Obama produces it